The American Sound Turntable- Beyond's Minimalist!

ddk

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I would almost bet that David has the only 2 in existence. It does have an uncanny resemblance to the AF3

Perhaps the much anticipated AF Zero will be fashioned after the AS. Of all the tables David has in his museum the AS with the Neumann DST cartridge lit my ears up like none of the others

Probably they made more, I only came across two in my travels. I look and search every time we're there . The square shape of the AF3 has the same origin, RX-5000 & RX-1500 of the 70's...

david
 

pcosta

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Jul 25, 2010
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The simplicity approach appeals to me. Esthetically I love it. Old school hand made quality with tolerances that are probably very impressive in todays ultra spec. world. No bullshit paint covering up machining or castings. No cheesy gold bling. Everything to see in all its naked glory.

How hard is it to lower that platter down.
 

ddk

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The simplicity approach appeals to me. Esthetically I love it. Old school hand made quality with tolerances that are probably very impressive in todays ultra spec. world. No bullshit paint covering up machining or castings. No cheesy gold bling. Everything to see in all its naked glory.

How hard is it to lower that platter down.

I love its looks too, specially when the machining quality is at this level. I'd hate to bling it up.

Its a 200lb dead lift Paul, not too big a deal if the the table is on the floor, different story when its 4' off the ground. There are two handles with long screws that screw into the platter ala Micro Seiki to lift it, then you center the platter with the base visually and lower gently, it just fits without any fuss.

david
 

NorthStar

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I am reading this thread with acute interest on the beautiful design of David's turntables...truly masterpiece craftsmanship. ...And the other aspects of precision too.

...The art @ the service of music ? form.

_______

Then some members provided links from German TT designers...just amazing!

Then I also remember a member here, a German TT designer...Derainer was his username (Rainer - real first name).
- Amir started a thread back then, about a $650,000 German turntable...and Rainer its real designer joined in later on.
I even had a short PM exchange with Rainer, regarding another turntable he was designing @ the time; because my interest was aroused, and he simply obliged by arousing it furthermore. :b

* This is that thread: [POST]48471[/POST] --> Started in April 21st, 2011
 

BruceD

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Interesting observations that it sounds so good--with all that metal--


BruceD
 

jam

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Bravo! Thanks for the tour David.
 

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jam

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Hi Bob,

That is Darth Tater a Mr.Potato Head character by Playskool
 

jam

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Hi Bob,

I can arrange for one to be sent to David if he so wishes...

I have the little guy guarding my setup, but we digress since this is a thread about American Sound. Maybe a thread for turntable ornaments is in order..............:D

Jam
 

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microstrip

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NorthStar

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Hi Bob,

I can arrange for one to be sent to David if he so wishes...

I have the little guy guarding my setup, but we digress since this is a thread about American Sound. Maybe a thread for turntable ornaments is in order..............:D

Jam

Wonderful music, IMHO this is the version to own (sorry it is not an LP :():

You two guys, Jam and Francisco, are truly great troopers...I luv it! :cool: ...And CDs are fine Francisco, nothing's wrong with them in the year 2015. :b
...Even David use them.
 

jam

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Thinking about the American Sound keeps me awake at night.................

David has raised a few great point as to what constitutes a good turntable

1) You need a massive platter..... inertia for speed stability

2) The mass of the plinth is important and has to be as small as possible (footprint) but have a high mass , energy dissipation......the ratio of platter mass to plinth mass has to be important (as suggested by Micro Seiki years ago.

3) Belt (or thread) tension is important regardless the rotational mass of the platter

4) Low friction in the bearing assembly (regardless of type) there seems to be an opposite point of view in some quarters.

A stylus can detect disturbances the distance of two molecules so the above factors become important.

These ideas started with the Micro Seiki RX-5000 and remain true today (in my humble opinion). It boggles the mind that most modern turntables have deviated from these simple rules.

Some manufacturers seem to be relearning them, case in point the new Air Force Three.

Just my two cents anyway, feel free to disagree.

Jam
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Thinking about the American Sound keeps me awake at night.................

LOL, no cure for that Jam.

David has raised a few great point as to what constitutes a good turntable

1) You need a massive platter..... inertia for speed stability

2) The mass of the plinth is important and has to be as small as possible (footprint) but have a high mass , energy dissipation......the ratio of platter mass to plinth mass has to be important (as suggested by Micro Seiki years ago.

3) Belt (or thread) tension is important regardless the rotational mass of the platter

4) Low friction in the bearing assembly (regardless of type) there seems to be an opposite point of view in some quarters.

A stylus can detect disturbances the distance of two molecules so the above factors become important.

These ideas started with the Micro Seiki RX-5000 and remain true today (in my humble opinion). It boggles the mind that most modern turntables have deviated from these simple rules.

Some manufacturers seem to be relearning them, case in point the new Air Force Three.

Just my two cents anyway, feel free to disagree.

Jam

In the case of AF3, its the same person who designed the SX-8000II, they're not relearning but relaunching, I'm hoping that they'll do more using the same form factor as well but it seems that they have other opinions about what's right for the high end market. AF1 is probably what they think of a good balance between bling and functionality and its been a runaway success...

david
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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or perhaps the much anticipated AF Zero

The thing that I am most curious about with the AF Zero is learning whether or not it will have a suspension. Ultra high mass and grounded with no suspension, or a medium mass with air suspension for the plinth, or some other design.

Do people think the American Sound table could be built today, and what would it cost?

Finally, David, Have you tried Stillpoints under the AS? Could you go into some detail about how it is supported, both the footers and the rack? I'm sorry if I missed this before.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Utah
The thing that I am most curious about with the AF Zero is learning whether or not it will have a suspension. Ultra high mass and grounded with no suspension, or a medium mass with air suspension for the plinth, or some other design.

Do people think the American Sound table could be built today, and what would it cost?

Finally, David, Have you tried Stillpoints under the AS? Could you go into some detail about how it is supported, both the footers and the rack? I'm sorry if I missed this before.


One thing for sure AF-0 will be a high mass design, they're not going to change course after all these years. Wether it will incorporate the airbags in the chassis like the AF1 & Af2 remains to be seen.

We already made 9 pcs of AS turntable in our tooling shop for some friends in our Far East audio club back in 2002, there are even a couple of upgrades to the design. Its all blue printed and possible to do a couple more small runs. We had a lesser version designed too but that proved to be more complicated to build than the full fledged one and since it wasn't a commercial venture not worth bothering with.

I never tried any SP under any of the turntables, as I mentioned in another post above using wiggly things under these high mass tables doesn't make any sense to me. I have tried them with other components but in the end didn't find any use for them.
The AS has its own screw-in feet machined out of stainless steel, its in the picts (1st one is a close up). I haven't done any tweaks to any of my tables and they all sit on same type of Kinetic Systems lab table with their steel composite top. All air hoses have been removed, not using air with any of them.

david
 
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PeterA

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We already made 9 pcs of AS turntable in our tooling shop for some friends in our Far East audio club back in 2002, there are even a couple of upgrades to the design. Its all blue printed and possible to do a couple more small runs. We had a lesser version designed too but that proved to be more complicated to build than the full fledged one and since it wasn't a commercial venture not worth bothering with.



david

David, did you design the American Sound turntable? If so, I must have missed this in the various threads.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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David, did you design the American Sound turntable? If so, I must have missed this in the various threads.

No, we had a kick ass tool & die division in my factory, I had it backward engineered and slightly modified, then we updated the motor, controller and the pump that came with the unit. My guy was one of those old school genius mechanics who could make anything and we had all high end precision machinery needed for the job in house. We used to make everything ourselves back then.

david
 

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