Thorens & Goldmund Reference Turntables - European Expressions of the Art of Beyond

[Audiocrack]

There was a problem in power supply/controller of the early versions which they fixed in the later generation like mine, I never had a problem with it. I'm spoilt by the flexibility and ease of setup of the SME arms, its really a one, two, three and you're done, I also know them well enough to know when my setup isn't optimal. I only setup the Goldmund arm once when I got the table and left it for years playing without a hitch until we moved. I have to pull out the manuals and relearn it again, just haven't had the patience for it. Also I'd like to try other cartridges on it to see how they work out but, so its just been waiting for me to get motivated.

Used Goldmunds are very undervalued these days but I see the Thorens tables just keep going up...

david

I have used for many years a Goldmund studio turntable - actually one of the latest Goldmund produced - with the T3f arm and never had problems with the latter. Then changed to the Forsell air force one turntable that beated the Studio/T3f combo in many ways. DDK, any plans to investigate the Rockport sirius and Forsell turntables in the future?

[jdza]

I have owned a Thorens Reference for more than a decade now. I used to be fascinated by turntables. When I received the Thorens all interest just stopped.It is probably not the best sounding but I don't care any longer. If have often wondered why this is the case. I think to me it just sounds right.I vividly remember the Saturday afternoon I stopped fiddling: I have a few production master reels of which I have the LPs cut from the same. I never play both Reel and LP in the same session as vinyl is just too far off. On this day I played both simultaneously and remotely switched between (My equipment is a separate room from the speakers and invisible from there) . After a few minute of this I got fed up and stuck with the tape,marvelling in its superiority. I was rudely awkened when instead of ending with quiet distant click I was attacked by the "Click ,Click of an end of side LP.

The Thorens is infinitely adjustable: By changing the tension of the suspension the sound changes dramatically.It is done by those flat knobs on the side of the suspension towers. Fully to one side the sound is tight with the bass dry,full to the other and the sound is underdamped and billowy . Somewhere in between it will fall in place. This varies from system to system,room to room.A friend of mine owns Ref in an Apogee/Krell system. His settings differ from my horn based system.

The amount of iron filings used in the receptacles in the armpods make a difference.Like an alchemist little amounts need to be added and removed until the magic pops . Armboard material matters. I used to firmly believe Thorens had it wrong,that an acrylic aluminium sandwich was the way to go. As my system and the Thorens setup evolved ,I discovered wood was better, then that softer wood even better and finally that the very soft original armboards (of which I had none left) were perfect once everything else is perfectly set up.

Two Tables prior to the Thorens I used to own an early Goldmund Studio with T3 arm.I still believe that arm could think for itself. I used to have an end of weekend ritual of playing older Pink Floyd,German electronica then Avant Garde Jazz on a Sunday night. I would end this session with The Carpenters. The T3 arm would work perfectly all night until the Carpenters hit the platter. The arm would then absolutely refuse to lift or move. Put another LP on and if found suitable it will play perfectly. Any ABBA LP and it would crash into the vinyl ripping off the stylus. 3 Destroyed Koetsu Onyx,Cardas Heart, Linn something and 2 tipless EMTs later the Goldmund left.

[ddk]

I have used for many years a Goldmund studio turntable - actually one if the latest Goldmund produced - with the T3f arm and never had problems with the latter. Then changed to the Forsell air force one turntable that beated the Studio/T3f combo in many ways. DDK, any plans to investigate the Rockport sirius and Forsell turntables in the future?

There's a huge difference between the sound of the Studio & the Reference, even with the same arm. Mine is a T3 too, never had problem with it. Had a Serius II briefly, very dead sound and hated the arm, didn't care for the III when I heard it either, same dead sound, unnatural. Liked the sound of Forsell better, my friend had one but it was finicky and the sound changed with air pressure. It lacked some body too, a little thin sounding. What do you use now?

david

[Audiocrack]

There's a huge difference between the sound of the Studio & the Reference, even with the same arm. Mine is a T3 too, never had problem with it. Had a Serius II briefly, very dead sound and hated the arm, didn't care for the III when I heard either, same dead sound, unnatural. Liked the sound of Forsell better, my friend had one but it was finicky and the sound changed with air pressure. It lacked some body too, a little thin sounding. What do you use now?

david

Agree on the difference. Heard the Goldmund reference a few times. Still using the Forsell, albeit with a Walker motor drive because the Forsell flywheel drove me crazy. In addition the Walker black diamond, the Blue Pearl JEM table with Kuzma airline and DaVinci Audio Gabriel mk ii with the Grandezza tonearm.

You do not care for the Rockport turntables but what about the Continuum?

Btw, the Forsell thin sounding? Imho that is odd because the Forsell is a somewhat darkish and warm sounding table in my view (some would say: 'musical').

[ddk]

I have owned a Thorens Reference for more than a decade now. I used to be facinated by turntables. When I received the Thorens all interest just stopped.It is probably not the best sounding but I don't care any longer. If have often wondered why this is the case. I think to me it just sounds right. It is infinietly adjustable: By changing the tension of the suspension the sound changes dramatically.It is done by those flat knobs on the side of the suspension towers. Fully to one side the sound is tight with the bass dry,full to the other and the sound is underdamped and billowy . Somewhere in between it will fall in place. This varies from system to system,room to room.A friend of mine owns Ref in an Apogee/Krell system. His settings differ from my horn based system.

The amount of iron filings used in the receptacles in the armpods make a difference.Like an alchemist liitle amounts need to be added and removed until the magic pops . Armboard material matters. I used to firmly believe Thorens had it wrong,that an acrylic aluminium sandwich was the way to go. As my system and the Thorens setup evolved ,I discovered wood was better, then that softer wood better and finally that very soft original armboards (of which I had none left) were perfect once everything else is perfectly set up.

Two Tables prior to the Thorens I used to own an early Goldmund Studio with T3 arm.I still believe that arm could think for itself. I used to have an end of weekend ritual of playing older Pink Floyd,German electronica then Avant Garde Jazz on a Sunday night. I would end this session with The Carpenters. The T3 arm would work perfectly all night until the Carpenters hit the platter. The arm would then absolutely refuse to lift or move. Put another LP on and if found suitable it will play perfectly. Any ABBA LP and it would crash into the vinyl ripping off the stylus. 3 Destroyed Koetsu Onyx,Cardas Heart, Linn something and 2 tipless EMTs later the Goldmund left

I still love tts and vintage speakers but narrowed it down to just this few. The Thorens Reference is brilliant with a beautiful warm natural sound, I can't fault it. I'm actually happy that it doesn't sound like a Micro and with a very different presentation. With these articles I'm trying to bring awareness to each table individually rather than one vs the other. At this level they're all very special and have their own unique qualities, nothing to knock! Appreciate you sharing here, nice to know about your experience.

david

[ddk]

Agree on the difference. Heard the Goldmund reference a few times. Still using the Forsell, albeit with a Walker motor drive because the Forsell flywheel drome me crazy. In addition the Walker black diamond, the Blue Pearl JEM table with Kuzma airline and DaVinci Audio Gabriel mk ii with the Grandezza tonearm.

You do not care for the Rockport turntables but what about the Continuum?

Btw, the Forsell thin sounding? Imho that is odd because the Forsell is a somewhat darkish and warm sounding table in my view (some would say: 'musical').

I like the DaVinci table and the arm is great sounding, actually a favorite of mine, had a couple of the early ones, should have kept them. The Caliburn was a sophisticated machine and they finally managed to fix speed issues before the company folded. I know it was praised in the magazines but I found it very boring sonically, my friend claims the less expensive Criterion is the one to have, I never heard it. My tastes are in line with your DaVinci table and arm, a realistic, natural sound as opposed to the strong character of the Continuum. Like I mentioned I did like the sound of the Air Force, it was dark and musical but lacked body in the upper bass and lacked real bottom end. It could have been my friend's settings but that's what I heard on many occasions.

david

[Audiocrack]

I like the DaVinci table and the arm is great sounding, actually a favorite of mine, had a couple of the early ones, should have kept them. The Caliburn was a sophisticated machine and they finally managed to fix speed issues before the company folded. I know it was praised in the magazines but I found it very boring sonically, my friend claims the less expensive Criterion is the one to have, I never heard it. My tastes are in line with your DaVinci table and arm, a realistic, natural sound as opposed to the strong character of the Continuum. Like I mentioned I did like the sound of the Air Force, it was dark and musical but lacked body in the upper bass and lacked real bottom end. It could have been my friend's settings but that's what I heard on many occasions.

david

Yes, the Forsell lackes real bottom end, we totally agree on that. To my ears its real strength are the mids and highs. I still love its pureness and delicacy. That is of course the reason I always kept it. Changed all my other gear but the Forsell is stillwith me after more than 20 years.

[microstrip]

Yes, the Forsell lackes real bottom end, we totally agree on that. To my ears its real strength are the mids and highs. I still love its pureness and delicacy. That is of course the reason I always kept it. Changed all my other gear but the Forsell is stillwith me after more than 20 years.

The Forsell has a bewitching characteristic - an absolute lack of vinyl artifacts. Once properly tweaked it is one of those components I feel it sounds natural - it is why I still keep the Air Force in my system.. I fully agree on the pureness and delicacy. IMHO the flywheel is mandatory for a more extended bottom end, although most of the time I use it with a sepaate drive. I am currently trying to add a separate motor to the flywheel. as the original drive electronics were a nightmare.

[Audiocrack]

The Forsell has a bewitching characteristic - an absolute lack of vinyl artifacts. Once properly tweaked it is one of those components I feel it sounds natural - it is why I still keep the Air Force in my system.. I fully agree on the pureness and delicacy. IMHO the flywheel is mandatory for a more extended bottom end, although most of the time I use it with a sepaate drive. I am currently trying to add a separate motor to the flywheel. as the original drive electronics were a nightmare.

Hi Microstrip,

Imho even with the flywheel the bottom end is the weakest part of the Forsell turntable. Eg, my Blue Pearl Jem absolutely kills it in the bass department. But the Forsell sound has something quite unique. It was for a reason that many moons ago some of the reviewers in TAS clearly preferred it to the Rockport sirius iii. Btw, in my set up the Forsell, Walker and Blue pearl tables are all standing on a wooden rack that is magnetically declouped through Halcyonics/Accurion devices and all tables are clearly benefitting from it. Keep enjoying your Forsell table as it is (in my view anyway) still very special.

[theophile]

Are you using the JEM turntable on the mag-lev footers?