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Thread: Thorens & Goldmund Reference Turntables - European Expressions of the Art of Beyond

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Analog was already a mature technology when they made these tables
    Oh yes, I didn't mean it wasn't. Both are statement products.
    If changes in sound are very small then they are not important.

  2. #32
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! Detlof's Avatar
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    I have had a Goldmund Ref for well over 30 years now. At the time when I bought it, it seemed a breakthrough to new shores of listening pleasure. But soon the linear arm started mistracking, made rumbling noises when the servo set in. Also the table was not quiet. So together with friends we redesigned the arm completely, put in new rails, silenced the driving mechanism and by adding another motor with new electronics could now change VTA on the fly from the listening position while the record was playing.
    No more fiddling with those flimsy screws which always were a bitch to allign properly to get VTA right. We also reworked, shaft, bearing, bottom plate all to much closer tolerances und put heating in to keep the oil at even temperature.
    It was a long labour of love, but to this day the TT sings.

  3. #33
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detlof View Post
    I have had a Goldmund Ref for well over 30 years now. At the time when I bought it, it seemed a breakthrough to new shores of listening pleasure. But soon the linear arm started mistracking, made rumbling noises when the servo set in. Also the table was not quiet. So together with friends we redesigned the arm completely, put in new rails, silenced the driving mechanism and by adding another motor with new electronics could now change VTA on the fly from the listening position while the record was playing.
    No more fiddling with those flimsy screws which always were a bitch to allign properly to get VTA right. We also reworked, shaft, bearing, bottom plate all to much closer tolerances und put heating in to keep the oil at even temperature.
    It was a long labour of love, but to this day the TT sings.
    The arm had problems when introduced but they addressed most of them in the final iterations including the updated controller but its still a bear to setup! It looks like you had the will and the ability to make major improvements on the design, would love to get more details and see some pictures. I solved the oil problem using a very low viscosity type used for aircraft instrumentation, the original would harden up at lower temperatures but not a big problem where I lived. Yes, the Reference still sings...

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  4. #34
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! Detlof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    The arm had problems when introduced but they addressed most of them in the final iterations including the updated controller but its still a bear to setup! It looks like you had the will and the ability to make major improvements on the design, would love to get more details and see some pictures. I solved the oil problem using a very low viscosity type used for aircraft instrumentation, the original would harden up at lower temperatures but not a big problem where I lived. Yes, the Reference still sings...

    david
    Yes, I was lucky a the time to have friends at the physics lab of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, where I lived a the time. I myself am a technical dumbo. As yu can see from the picture, the design was elegant and simple.

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  5. #35
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detlof View Post
    Yes, I was lucky a the time to have friends at the physics lab of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, where I lived a the time. I myself am a technical dumbo. As yu can see from the picture, the design was elegant and simple.

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    Very nice Detlof, I see that you got rid of the stepped belt too, thanks for sharing.

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  6. #36
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    I thought Thorens was a swiss company as well back then. I think they were later bought by a german who resurrected the brand...but I could be wrong.

  7. #37
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morricab View Post
    I thought Thorens was a swiss company as well back then. I think they were later bought by a german who resurrected the brand...but I could be wrong.
    They began as a Swiss company but moved to Germany and opened a new company in mid 1960's. Aside from owning the brand name the current Thorens has nothing to do with the original company and their products.

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    They began as a Swiss company but moved to Germany and opened a new company in mid 1960's. Aside from owning the brand name the current Thorens has nothing to do with the original company and their products.

    david
    Thorens belonged to Franz, the manufacturer of EMT turntables from 1966 to the early 2000s. Both EMT and Thorens were located in Lahr in the German Black Forest. It was under EMT ownership that the TD125,TD 150,TD126, TD160 ,Prestige and Reference turntables were developed. Some parts were shared (motorised armlifts,strobe lights etc.)and some EMT tts were modified as Thorens (TD524) and some Thorens tables made into EMTs (928).

    Thorens reverted to Swiss ownership in 2002 when it fell foul of German bankruptcy laws.

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