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Thread: Thorens & Goldmund Reference Turntables - European Expressions of the Art of Beyond

  1. #1
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Thorens & Goldmund Reference Turntables - European Expressions of the Art of Beyond

    Thorens Reference & Goldmund Reference Turntables


    The decade between 1975 & 1985 was very special, almost all the turntables belonging to the Beyond category were designed and produced during this time. This is when Linn ruled the mobs and magazines hailed it as THE REFERENCE while Thorens & Goldmund created uncompromised masterpieces.


    The Thorens & Goldmund have nothing in common as far as their designs go but interestingly there’s a commonality in their sound. Also both have been criticized in the audiophile circles for lacking the ultimate in bass resolution and being somewhat colored when compared to the top Micro Seiki tables. While true to an extent they failed to recognize the beauty of the whole. These aren’t mere machines built according to the numbers they’re born from the sophistication and passion of a higher intelligence. Listen to them without expectation or prejudice and they’ll reveal the inner beauty and soul of the music with natural ease. The difference between their presentation vs that of their Japanese counterparts comes from the backgrounds of their creators. The Thorens & the Goldmund express European sensitivities of the arts while Micro Seiki tables are built upon Asian & Japanese values. Two cultures rich with their own history and tradition to experience, and why not?


    Facts and figures of these tables can be found in many places on the net, along with positive and negative audiophile reviews. Within my limitations of language I’m hoping to share the emotional and intellectual arousal, the place Beyond the black goop and electronic signals of perfect machines, that the designers of these works of art intended to share with us. IMO, they succeeded…


    david


    The Thorens Reference with all its glorious German flair...


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    Last edited by ddk; 06-05-2016 at 05:20 PM. Reason: Object to moderators!
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  2. #2
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Goldmund Reference, the Swiss Statement!


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    david
    Last edited by ddk; 06-05-2016 at 05:31 PM.
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  3. #3
    Member Sponsor [WBF Founding Member] FrantzM's Avatar
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    DDk

    How do you think those compare to the Japanese Masterpieces of the 70's ... Micro Seiki, Kenwood L-09, Pioneer (forget the model) ,etc
    Frantz
    __________________________________

    "For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
    —Carl Sagan
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
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    (mis-attributed to A. Einstein)

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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! rockitman's Avatar
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    Amazing examples !
    Christian

    System Gear

  5. #5
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post
    DDk

    How do you think those compare to the Japanese Masterpieces of the 70's ... Micro Seiki, Kenwood L-09, Pioneer (forget the model) ,etc
    Its in the initial post above the Thorens picts Frantz. The Kenwoods, Pioneer, Technics Direct Drives really don't qualify in this category, they're very competent but only basic machines. The high end Micros and these tables are a lot more than that, they have very individual characters. The differences come from their presentation and designer's sensibilities, hard to quantify but easy to demonstrate, maybe when you come.

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  6. #6
    Site Founder And Administrator Steve Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Its in the initial post above the Thorens picts Frantz. The Kenwoods, Pioneer, Technics Direct Drives really don't qualify in this category, they're very competent but only basic machines. The high end Micros and these tables are a lot more than that, they have very individual characters. The differences come from their presentation and designer's sensibilities, hard to quantify but easy to demonstrate, maybe when you come.

    david
    Frantz

    I you get a chance you must visit David. I know that you will love it and as David says he can easily show you how each of these sound so different. He has 2 Micro Sekei turntables that he has already described here

    http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...II-amp-SX-8000

    Frantz, trust me when I say that I know you will love it. People need other this system
    Steve Williams
    aka oneobgyn
    There's ALWAYS another Steve Williams BUT there's only "oneobgyn"
    Dealer Lamm Electronics
    My System

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    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    An old acquaintance owned a Goldmund Reference - I had the pleasure of listening to it long ago. Unfortunately, most of the times I was there it had problems with the linear tonearm.

    I never listened to the Thorens Reference, but my enthusiasm was big when I found one for sale a very nice price a few years ago. The pictures looked fabulous, but soon I found it was not an original, but a replica made in China ... Surely I did not buy it!
    Under construction around a pair of Wilson XLF's, an Audio Research Anniversary preamplifier, TA OPUS MM2, Shunyata Denali/Sigma and a DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack ...

  8. #8
    Site Founder And Administrator Steve Williams's Avatar
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    I know David commented to me as well about the linear tracking arm on the Goldmund and how difficult it is to set up
    Steve Williams
    aka oneobgyn
    There's ALWAYS another Steve Williams BUT there's only "oneobgyn"
    Dealer Lamm Electronics
    My System

  9. #9
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! rockitman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    An old acquaintance owned a Goldmund Reference - I had the pleasure of listening to it long ago. Unfortunately, most of the times I was there it had problems with the linear tonearm.

    I never listened to the Thorens Reference, but my enthusiasm was big when I found one for sale a very nice price a few years ago. The pictures looked fabulous, but soon I found it was not an original, but a replica made in China ... Surely I did not buy it!
    Yes the Chinese knockoff was a real bummer...
    Christian

    System Gear

  10. #10
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    An old acquaintance owned a Goldmund Reference - I had the pleasure of listening to it long ago. Unfortunately, most of the times I was there it had problems with the linear tonearm.

    I never listened to the Thorens Reference, but my enthusiasm was big when I found one for sale a very nice price a few years ago. The pictures looked fabulous, but soon I found it was not an original, but a replica made in China ... Surely I did not buy it!
    There was a problem in power supply/controller of the early versions which they fixed in the later generation like mine, I never had a problem with it. I'm spoilt by the flexibility and ease of setup of the SME arms, its really a one, two, three and you're done, I also know them well enough to know when my setup isn't optimal. I only setup the Goldmund arm once when I got the table and left it for years playing without a hitch until we moved. I have to pull out the manuals and relearn it again, just haven't had the patience for it. Also I'd like to try other cartridges on it to see how they work out but, so its just been waiting for me to get motivated.

    Used Goldmunds are very undervalued these days but I see the Thorens tables just keep going up...

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

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