Looking for thoughtful recording company - no HD

garylkoh · Oct 13, 2010

ack said:
Am dying to build a hi-rez server to try 24/176 through the Alpha, but I feel I am only 6 months away.

Check out the thread here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1201-Music-Server-Project

Various members have already built 6 of these without sparks or smoke..... and they sound wonderful.

By the way, I hear from a reliable source that BADA are developing a USB interface - likely to be stand-alone.

Steve Williams · Oct 13, 2010

Agreed! I think that the Berkeley Alpha DAC is far more musical compared to the Playback Designs. I still need to do the comparison between the Weiss and the Berkeley. I'm a manufacturer, but I don't make DACs and I have no intention of ever making DACs so I hope no one objects to my saying this.

Gary I am curious if you have had occasion to compare the Playback Designs vs the new Meitner Xd-S1

Ron Party · Oct 13, 2010

garylkoh said:
By the way, I hear from a reliable source that BADA are developing a USB interface - likely to be stand-alone.

I heard the same thing.

Steve Williams · Oct 13, 2010

What's BADA ? Berkeley Alpha DAC?

muralman1 · Oct 13, 2010

Below are a few quotes from a couple sources that trouble me (emphasis is mine). These little complaints are magnified on my system a thousand fold.

HDCD encodes the equivalent of 20 bits worth of data in a 16-bit digital audio signal by using custom dithering, audio filters, and some reversible amplitude and gain encoding; Peak Extend, which is a reversible soft limiter and Low Level Range Extend, which is a reversible gain on low-level signals. There is thus a benefit at the expense of a VERY MINOR INCREASE IN NOISE.

...in itself, the use of the first bit in the dithered least significant bit stream will DEGRADE the sound quality on a non-HDCD player by decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio but only by a minuscule amount.

HDCD Peak Extension, if chosen in HDCD mastering, will apply compression to the peaks which will be audible in playback on a non-HDCD system which does not apply the appropriate expansion curve.

First, one problem is that if you use a CD player without HDCD (like most do), you will hurt the soundquality. You will lose 1 bit of the 16 bit on the CD and the music can be compressed up to 11,5 dB

Steve Williams · Oct 13, 2010

I hope I am not misquoting Amir but IIRC Amir in another thread suggests only 14 bits are required for adequate reproduction. Correct me if I am wrong someone

ack · Oct 13, 2010

garylkoh said:
By the way, I hear from a reliable source that BADA are developing a USB interface - likely to be stand-alone.

Yes, see this thread

ack · Oct 13, 2010

muralman1 said:
Below are a few quotes from a couple sources that trouble me (emphasis is mine). These little complaints are magnified on my system a thousand fold.

HDCD encodes the equivalent of 20 bits worth of data in a 16-bit digital audio signal by using custom dithering, audio filters, and some reversible amplitude and gain encoding; Peak Extend, which is a reversible soft limiter and Low Level Range Extend, which is a reversible gain on low-level signals. There is thus a benefit at the expense of a VERY MINOR INCREASE IN NOISE.

...in itself, the use of the first bit in the dithered least significant bit stream will DEGRADE the sound quality on a non-HDCD player by decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio but only by a minuscule amount.

HDCD Peak Extension, if chosen in HDCD mastering, will apply compression to the peaks which will be audible in playback on a non-HDCD system which does not apply the appropriate expansion curve.

First, one problem is that if you use a CD player without HDCD (like most do), you will hurt the soundquality. You will lose 1 bit of the 16 bit on the CD and the music can be compressed up to 11,5 dB

The best answer to this is: read my article on the HDCD patent, which discusses all of these.

ack · Oct 13, 2010

Steve Williams said:
What's BADA ? Berkeley Alpha DAC?

Yes

muralman1 · Oct 13, 2010

Thank you for the link. I am sure folks who own, or are planning to own, HDCD capable players should read your summaries on the patent. Please forgive me when I say I won't need to.

Phelonious Ponk · Oct 13, 2010

muralman1 said:
Thank you for the link. I am sure folks who own, or are planning to own, HDCD capable players should read your summaries on the patent. Please forgive me when I say I won't need to.

I suspect he is suggesting that you read the patent papers not because you are in the market for an HDCD player, but so you can get some perspective on what it is you think is exaggerated a thousand fold on your system. The room that contains the audiophile world is papered with the proclamations of those who believe their systems are so resolving that they can hear the inaudible. But more often than not, it is still inaudible.

P

muralman1 · Oct 13, 2010

Phelonious Ponk said:
I suspect he is suggesting that you read the patent papers not because you are in the market for an HDCD player, but so you can get some perspective on what it is you think is exaggerated a thousand fold on your system. The room that contains the audiophile world is papered with the proclamations of those who believe their systems are so resolving that they can hear the inaudible. But more often than not, it is still inaudible.

P

P - Bring it on! I can demonstrate how insulation bleeds random energy into the signal sounding like white noise. I can place any preamp you care to champion with the one I have, and watch the dynamics and stage collapse. Give me your best oversampling CD player and see how poorly it reacts. This is not my fault. It is my findings of what works and doesn't work with my ICE amps.

Steve Williams · Oct 13, 2010

Vince

have you or anyone done measurements on your room and would you give us room dimensions again

muralman1 · Oct 13, 2010

Steve Williams said:
Vince

have you or anyone done measurements on your room and would you give us room dimensions again

Sure Steve,

17w/21l/10h The ceiling is broken into 12 squares by heavy box beams. The short wall the speakers are on has a window center with wood blinds.

Vince

muralman1 · Oct 13, 2010

To get back to our regular programing here is, "Thoughtful recording industries,"

Steve Williams · Oct 13, 2010

But has any one done room measurements.

muralman1 · Oct 13, 2010

Steve Williams said:
But has any one done room measurements.

Room measurements..... This is very hard to do with bipole speakers. Check out the 80's reviews of these. The Scintilla couples with the room. Mine is not ideal, but it is very good. Symmetry is important with these speakers.

The sound improves some when I close the french doors, and big slider.

Bruce B · Oct 14, 2010

garylkoh said:
The Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC indeed sounds wonderful. I can't wait to get one into my own listening room to have an extended listen - and they have already said that I can have one to try out after RMAF. Yippee!!

garylkoh said:
Agreed! I think that the Berkeley Alpha DAC is far more musical compared to the Playback Designs.

I respectfully disagree. Without extended listening sessions in a system that you are familiar with and with both units available for side-by-side comparison, one can not make a blanket statement like this.

We have listened to the Playback and the BADA in side-by-side comparisons in 2 systems for extended listening sessions and have to say the Playback is the better DAC overall. Besides, we feel there are several other DAC's that better the BADA in overall sound quality and function. These are the Weiss DAC1 MkII and DAC 2, the Lavry Gold, Prism Dream DA-2, EMM Labs DAC8 IV and the DAD AX24.

Steve Williams · Oct 14, 2010

Hi Bruce

I asked the question of Gary but perhaps you might know. have you had a chance to compare the PD to the new Meitner XD-S1

FrantzM · Oct 14, 2010

Bruce

What would be the Lavry Pro equivalent of the Lavry Gold? And what would be its price?

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