Roon-have you switched to it and if so why?

hifial said:

It is my understanding that they hope it will be in two to three months. Though it could be sooner and it could be a bit longer, I suspect it to be longer as it may not be easy to integrate them. But I hope it happens tomorrow. It is not 100% that it will happen but (last I heard was about two-three weeks ago) it is looking like it will. Roon (at least the principles that I have conversed with) seem to understand the need to work with the Audiophile community.

I gave them a list of must haves beyond what they planed on; DSD (not just 64 and 128 but 256 too) Native DSD not just DoP, ASIO, HQP and great sounding. So far they have responded to the requests of the Audiophile community at large so hopefully HQP will be the next big thing to happen.

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Supposedly by end of a summer, HQ player will be "integrated" whatever that means.

In the meantime, in it's current format, Roon is NOT for those like Michael who need DSP or multichannel. WDM doesn't work that great as last I tried it caused stuttering when selecting a track. My understanding is that with putting in some delays you can get rid of that, however, I was not successful in that feat.

HOWEVER, as a two channel player and interface it has become my goto. I love it. If you are like me, with 3TB of music, you will rediscover your library. Nothing against JRiver and it was my goto player until recently. SQ on Roon in it's initial inception was limited. However, within weeks they responded with ASIO as well as DSD in native and DoP and Roon is as good as JRiver. They REALLY listen to their customers demands and will soon be releasing their iOS remote product, hopefully this week. Roon speakers is also in their schedule as is HQPlayer.

Depending upon what their iPad app is capable of (ie being a real endpoint) will determine whether I use it or dump my iPad for a Surface 3. I would like either the iPad if capable or the Surface 3 which I know is capable of being used as an endpoint for my Hugo/LCD-X.

One thing JRemote does that I really want them to implement in Roon is "assets" where you can open up the pdf liner if included with the album.

In conclusion, I look at this product as one of the best I have ever purchased. Their team is amazing, want to please, act quick with new releases adding great functionality with every release. I was quite impressed with how quick they released ASIO and DSD (both DoP and Direct) support. The interface is second to none and really allows you to delve back into your library. I am listening to many redbook rips I have all but forgotten and some are truly spectacular. Rediscovering my library is definitely worth the price for me at least as long as the SQ is not compromised. It is not "perfect" yet. However they aren't going to stop until it is.

I also purchased it. I tried it once, letting it just choose music for me based on an initial selection and I quite enjoyed it. I'm really waiting for their iPad app to use it more but based on what I'm seeing in the PC app, I have no doubts that it will be good (even if it's initially).

Anyhow, I was skeptical at first because I really like JRemote, but quickly decided these guys were worth supporting.

MadFloyd said:

I also purchased it. I tried it once, letting it just choose music for me based on an initial selection and I quite enjoyed it. I'm really waiting for their iPad app to use it more but based on what I'm seeing in the PC app, I have no doubts that it will be good (even if it's initially).

Anyhow, I was skeptical at first because I really like JRemote, but quickly decided these guys were worth supporting.

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Agree. "Supposedly" the iPad app will just reproduce what you are seeing either on their "core" or "remote" screens and "should be able to act as an endpoint", the latter claim, I am dubious about. If the latter claim is true, then theoretically, one could just plug a camera connector from the iPad to a lightning to USB connector and run a DAC. For sure Surface 3 can act as an endpoint as well as a remote client, I am just not sure that iPad (or Android for that manner) could run as an endpoint.

hifial said:

It is my understanding that they hope it will be in two to three months. Though it could be sooner and it could be a bit longer, I suspect it to be longer as it may not be easy to integrate them. But I hope it happens tomorrow. It is not 100% that it will happen but (last I heard was about two-three weeks ago) it is looking like it will. Roon (at least the principles that I have conversed with) seem to understand the need to work with the Audiophile community.

I gave them a list of must haves beyond what they planed on; DSD (not just 64 and 128 but 256 too) Native DSD not just DoP, ASIO, HQP and great sounding. So far they have responded to the requests of the Audiophile community at large so hopefully HQP will be the next big thing to happen.

Click to expand...

Wow, a great music organizer with great sound, something that never existed before. Anyone who has heard HQP redbook-to-DSD128 upsampling knows what I mean.

Sam Lord said:

Wow, a great music organizer with great sound, something that never existed before. Anyone who has heard HQP redbook-to-DSD128 upsampling knows what I mean.

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Actually Danny is talking like it is a done deal. He also was making comments that their API is pretty easy to integrate and they WILL be doing so. How it happens is another story. But good news nonetheless.

Priaptor said:

Actually Danny is talking like it is a done deal. He also was making comments that their API is pretty easy to integrate and they WILL be doing so. How it happens is another story. But good news nonetheless.

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Yes, "done deal" but until it happens (is released) I prefer to tread lightly making any pronouncements. Including any time frames.

Experiences with Roon

I have switched to Roon. DSD direct was a feature that needed to be in the product before I would purchase. "Direct (64 bit float)" plays back DSD native through the USB port to my MSB Diamond DAC. I think this is true since the display of the Diamond DAC reads "DSD 64X" during the playback of these files. Can someone confirm? I'm eagerly awaiting iPad support as are many others. Like many others I find the seamless integration of Tidal, my own digitally stored music library in different bit rates, and my DSD files to be an entertaining way to listen to music and explore new artists. Good stuff.

rsorren1 said:

I have switched to Roon. DSD direct was a feature that needed to be in the product before I would purchase. "Direct (64 bit float)" plays back DSD native through the USB port to my MSB Diamond DAC. I think this is true since the display of the Diamond DAC reads "DSD 64X" during the playback of these files. Can someone confirm? I'm eagerly awaiting iPad support as are many others. Like many others I find the seamless integration of Tidal, my own digitally stored music library in different bit rates, and my DSD files to be an entertaining way to listen to music and explore new artists. Good stuff.

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What type of MSB driver are you using - WASAPI or ASIO? Last I heard Tidal didn't support ASIO.

rsorren1 said:

I have switched to Roon. DSD direct was a feature that needed to be in the product before I would purchase. "Direct (64 bit float)" plays back DSD native through the USB port to my MSB Diamond DAC. I think this is true since the display of the Diamond DAC reads "DSD 64X" during the playback of these files. Can someone confirm? I'm eagerly awaiting iPad support as are many others. Like many others I find the seamless integration of Tidal, my own digitally stored music library in different bit rates, and my DSD files to be an entertaining way to listen to music and explore new artists. Good stuff.

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I also have a large DSD library and having true DSD support is critical. Yes, Roon does pass native DSD to the DAC as long as the connection is through a USB port and of course the DAC needs to have DSD capability.

I am really enjoying Roon and have setup a server with multiple clients. It has worked flawlessly so far and I do have a mixed environment with both PCs and. MACs.

I haven't seen seen anyone mention it but one of the features that I like is the ability to direct a music stream to a target client with a different client. So it is like having remote control of a computer without using cumbersome VNC software.

CGabriel said:

I haven't seen seen anyone mention it but one of the features that I like is the ability to direct a music stream to a target client with a different client. So it is like having remote control of a computer without using cumbersome VNC software.

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Can you elaborate on this a bit, Caelin? I'm not sure I follow (but would like to).

MadFloyd said:

What type of MSB driver are you using - WASAPI or ASIO? Last I heard Tidal didn't support ASIO.

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The set-up is as follows: MacBook Pro (OSX latest) used as server, USB 2TB drive with my digital files (AIFF and dsf) attached, MacBook Pro wifi attached to home network for Tidal. In Roon under the "storage" setting I define the directories where the music files are stored, in Roon "services" I'm logged into Tidal, in Roon "Audio" settings the enabled output is the MSB Diamond DAC. There is a section below "DSD to PCM Algorithm". The drop-down box selection I selected is "Direct (64bit float)". No gain boost. My confusion is that under settings for the MSB output device, the "DSD Playback Strategy" setting is "DSD over PCM v1.0 (DoP)". It appears that Roon is passing dsf files directly through to the MSB DAC using DoP. I'm a bit confused by these two settings.

I am very curious, and I would like to ask some HERE, from the WBF members.

1. A one lifetime fee for Roon is $500 ... how much is it monthly, and do you have a free period of testing?
2. How does Tidal compares to it (Tidal is a $20/month subscription, and CD quality music streaming ... 44/16) and do you have many interruptions?
3. Anyone using Spotify instead, for better stability and less music interruptions?

4. Is Roon the highest quality music streaming?
5. People who use JRiver, iTunes, Apple music streaming, Rhapsody, etc., ...did you try them all and compared them for a) best sound quality, b) best streaming capability (no music interruption), ...and c) with measurements?

6. About music selection; can you get all the great Channel Classics record label music selections, ECM record label, Reference Recordings record label, AudioQuest record label, APO, Jazz Concord, etc., ...brief all the best quality music recordings available from the best world record labels (best studio music recordings, with some of the best world musicians and Opera singers)? ...This, the most important question of them all. ...And without music interruption, of course.

* Are you using music streaming in your main rig (room), or as background music through your home and on the road (car, and headphone from your cell phone)?

Best thanks.

NorthStar said:

I am very curious, and I would like to ask some HERE, from the WBF members.

1. A one lifetime fee for Roon is $500 ... how much is it monthly, and do you have a free period of testing?
2. How does Tidal compares to it (Tidal is a $20/month subscription, and CD quality music streaming ... 44/16) and do you have many interruptions?
3. Anyone using Spotify instead, for better stability and less music interruptions?

4. Is Roon the highest quality music streaming?
5. People who use JRiver, iTunes, Apple music streaming, Rhapsody, etc., ...did you try them all and compared them for a) best sound quality, b) best streaming capability (no music interruption), ...and c) with measurements?

6. About music selection; can you get all the great Channel Classics record label music selections, ECM record label, Reference Recordings record label, AudioQuest record label, APO, Jazz Concord, etc., ...brief all the best quality music recordings available from the best world record labels (best studio music recordings, with some of the best world musicians and Opera singers)? ...This, the most important question of them all. ...And without music interruption, of course.

* Are you using music streaming in your main rig (room), or as background music through your home and on the road (car, and headphone from your cell phone)?

Best thanks.

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Bob,

Roon isn't a music streaming service like Tidal or Spotify. I can see why you got that impression - because they have a modern software business model where instead of a one time fee (although they do offer that), you can pay yearly. Many companies are doing this.

But what Roon offers is a client to browse and play your OWN music software (on your own hard drives) like JRiver. It does integrate with Tidal but you have to pay for Tidal separately (on your own).

JRiver costs around $50 to initially purchase and probably half of that to upgrade very year (if you choose to). Why does Roon cost so much more? Because they feel what they are offering in terms of automatic song tagging, auto-choosing music for you etc is far beyond any other application available. That said, it's still in its infancy (and will get better over time).

Hope that helps.

Oh, thanks Ian for that important specification.

MadFloyd said:

Can you elaborate on this a bit, Caelin? I'm not sure I follow (but would like to).

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I have a listening room that has only the speakers in it. The control room which has all of the audio electronics is located in a room along an adjoining wall. There is a feed through that connects the speakers in the listening room to the control room electronics.

We also have a network room that contains all the network, broadband and computer servers. In this room is located a PC with Roon loaded as a server. The server has a disk array connected with all the music files loaded on it. This one Roon server can provide a music stream to multiple clients located anywhere in the building through an Ethernet or wireless connection.

In the audio control room we have a modified Mac Mini that is connected via USB to the DAC. This Mac Mini is running Roon in client mode. There are no music files on the Mac Mini. The music comes through the network from the Roon server located in the network room. BTW, Roon charges you for server licenses not for client mode software. So you pay for one license for the server software and can have many clients without additional cost.

When you want to play music, you could use the Mac Mini interface to select and play the music. But Roon has a capability that most people don't understand yet, which is you can select and direct music using one client to a different client or to the server. So in our case, we have an HP computer that has an integrated touch screen that is located in the listening room. It has Roon loaded as a client and yet there is no USB connection to a DAC from it. Rather it is used exclusively to control and send music to the Mac Mini Roon client. This is a powerful feature that is not found with other solutions. Most other solutions use an iPad app to control the music server.

Understand it more now?

Yes, thank you!

Tagging is one of the most difficult and time consuming aspects of building a computer music library, especially classical music, which is my mainstay. Roon's main advantage is that it does much of that for you automatically. But, what I do not see anywhere is a description of how and where Roon stores the tags.

Does it store the tags in its own proprietary internal library directory database? Or does it also store a copy of them in the media files themselves in standardized fashion IDV3? I use JRiver now, and it can store the tags in both places in standard format. I have a hunch Roon might not store a copy of the tags in the media files.

The possible consequence is if Roon goes belly up or if I want to migrate to some other tool in the future, can I access the tags populated by Roon and transport them to another library tool? If not, then all tagging done via Roon would be wasted and would have to be redone. Even with Roon, I suspect there would need to be much manual tagging input based in my experience with classical albums to date. I would not want to do that unless I were assured that the tagging info, whether Roon generated or manually input, could be converted to some other tool in future.

I also like JRiver for me for now because of the widespread media types and control features it contains, including video formats, TV watching, bass management, format conversion, etc. I am over the learning hump with JRiver and my library tagging is pretty good and complete for now as a result of considerable manual effort.

I will just have to keep my eye on Roon and see how comprehensively it develops.