Greek Manufacturer Shutdown?

spiritofmusic · Jul 6, 2015

Yanis Varoufakis the Greek Finance minister has resigned. From reports he thought his Euro minister colleagues were w*****s, and that he couldn't stop lecturing others as to how his opinions were preeminent.
He's not our recently departed Peter B by any chance?! Hell of a coincidence their personalities are identical.

McLennan · Jul 6, 2015

Just read his farewell:

Minister No More!
Posted on July 6, 2015 by yanisv
The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning."

His place in greek history, among Achilles, Odysseus and others is save, statues of him should be erected in every city in greece, what am I saying, in whole of europe, how could we have been so blind...

Unfortunately, not being a native english speaker, I have to look up some of the words and I only have a very old version of the Oxford Dictionary, I couldn't find the word 'w......kers' Peter Breuninger used. Could someone help me to improve my english?

Fred · Jul 6, 2015

Maybe there really is an organization called KAOS after all.

andromedaaudio · Jul 6, 2015

Okay the stand/viewpoint from an above modest northern europe taxpayer like me :

IF the dutch economy doesnt confirm to brussels standards it gets a fine of billions of euros , if the economy does better as expected we get fined as well ( see the link i posted) , out of the euro is impossible otherwise the lights will go out and the sky will fall down , anyone knows the exit ??
How stupid can an organisation be that it doesnt even have an exit strategy for a member to leave , it reminds me of the mob or the song Hotel California (the eagles ) , " you can check in but you can never leave "
Well i am shorting the index , see if i can profit form this idiocy , to me the current EU is the joke of the world, before that europe didnt have a problem it was functioning just fine, at least holland did

wisnon · Jul 6, 2015

andromedaaudio said:
Okay the stand/viewpoint from an above model northern europe taxpayer like me :

IF the dutch economy doesnt confirm to brussels standards it gets a fine of billions of euros , if the economy does better then expected as it did we get fined as well as ( see the link i posted) , out of the euro is impossible otherwise the lights will go out and the sky will fall down , anyone knows the exit ??
How stupid can an organisation be that it doesnt even have an exit strategy for a member to leave , it reminds me of the mob or the song Hotel California (the eagles ) , " you can check in but you can never leave "
Well i am shorting the index , see if i can profit form this idiocy , to me the current EU is the joke of the world, before that europe didnt have a problem it was functioning just fine, at least holland did

Its worse…the line is "Relax said the night man, we are programmed to receive, You can check out anytime you like…but you can NEVER leave".

The other poignant line is "they stab it with their steely knoives, but they just cant kill the beast".

joecasey · Jul 6, 2015

Mosin said:
If the rest of Europe gives in to the Greeks on this, the entire Eurozone is compromised, in my opinion. A dangerous precedent will be set that overshadows any fallout from merely the Greek situation. A lot more is at stake, so it is not really a Catch-22. The problem is that the Greeks cannot seem to see the larger picture.

The die is cast; Europe must do without Greece. Greece is now what bankers here call an R9 charge-off, and the common man calls a deadbeat.

I agree! A bad precedence for Spain, Italy and Portugal.

I feel bad for Greece younger generations. They were never taught work ethnics but dependent on government and stuck with the bills. It's a cultural problem and not going to end well. Wish them luck!

rockitman · Jul 6, 2015

Greece needs to learn that putting radical leftists in charge is a bad idea. They really drank the kook aid and are still drunk on it by voting no on the referendum. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. Let it be a lesson to other countries who may consider electing radicals to run their government.

joecasey · Jul 7, 2015

rockitman said:
Greece needs to learn that putting radical leftists in charge is a bad idea. They really drank the kook aid and are still drunk on it by voting no on the referendum. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. Let it be a lesson to other countries who may consider electing radicals to run their government.

It's humorous voting NO and celebrating when one is BEGGING for money. This demonstrates they've been living in a fantasy world and will be IMPOSSIBLE adjusting to reality.

IMO, all countries eventually evolve into a liberal and socialistic style government. Politicians gain power by creating class warfare dividing its citizens. Programs are develop for select groups to secure votes ... permanent voting blocks. Once programs are create, they will exist forever. Removing them is political suicide so governments just grows and grows ... until it goes broke.

As government grows, resources are absorbed with support of taxes. Private sectors shrink with lack of resources and growth slows to a halt. US is a relative young country but with current administration, it has accelerated the move to a socialistic country. When taxes collected are no longer enough to support a bloated government, shot hits the fan.

Once train is off, there's no stopping it. People will always vote for the politician that promise them the world.

In the 2009 financial crisis, I have many friends that were layoff from work and most elected to collect unemployment for 104 weeks with free health care instead of looking for new employment. It's human nature if you give people a reason to fail, they will. IMO not a coincidence when unemployment extension was NOT extended by Congress, jobs creation dramatically increased in subsequent quarters. The solution is abolish the unnecessary subsidizes and force people back to work.

In this climate, if a politician says, "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", main stream media will label him a right wing nut with no compassion for the poor.

Bobvin · Jul 7, 2015

Reminds me of the story about 2 little kids in grammar school running for class office. Johny tells his platform: new books, longer recess, etc. Suzy gets in front of the class and promises free ice cream. She got every vote.

wisnon · Jul 7, 2015

Switzerland is far more "socialist" than the UK and is far better managed. All these labels are useless and obscures the real reality of what is going on. Want to talk about programs? Corprorate welfare is the real money waster in the US. THIS current admin??? Haaaha

The US has been draining the coffers with both Dems and Reps and for decades. So, is it OK to bankrupt a country fighting endless spurious wars??
Milton Freidman died a broken man when he say the massive fiscal irresponsibility of the last Rep white house admin…no democrat could have gotten away with that.

There is no substitute for a CONSCIOUS and enlightened population...

joecasey · Jul 7, 2015

wisnon said:
Switzerland is far more "socialist" than the UK and is far better managed. All these labels are useless and obscures the real reality of what is going on. Want to talk about programs? Corprorate welfare is the real money waster in the US. THIS current admin??? Haaaha

The US has been draining the coffers with both Dems and Reps and for decades. So, is it OK to bankrupt a country fighting endless spurious wars??
Milton Freidman died a broken man when he say the massive fiscal irresponsibility of the last Rep white house admin…no democrat could have gotten away with that.

There is no substitute for a CONSCIOUS and enlightened population...

Switzerland is a tiny country and IMO, the policies doesn't translate well to a larger country?

I agree corporate welfare is also a problem. I don't believe in too big to fail and have government picking winners and losers. Allow failures to go away and reallocate resources to new ideas. With QE and zero rate causing asset bubble and destroying fixed income. When interest only mortgage was created, it's a matter of time last bubble will bust. But don't see any indicators when this bubble will burst yet.

I'm not a Dem or Rep but a libertarian. I live in New Hampshire, "Live Free or Die". Well before got corrupted with Massachusetts transplants.

In regards to wars, the world should THANK us for all our sacrifices over the years. So you must be happy with current US hands off policy in the world where people are getting tortured and killed? Evil is not going away but growing and eventually somebody has to deal with it. For once, I want US to stay out and have somebody else take the lead. Is Switzerland stepping up? I'm holding my breath and counting ... 1, 2, ...

patpend · Jul 7, 2015

joecasey said:
I'm not a Dem or Rep but a libertarian. I live in New Hampshire, "Live Free or Die".

I knew i liked you for some reason Joe! Come visit a fellow libertarian out west sometime!

McLennan · Jul 7, 2015

Maybe back to Greek manufacture shutdown?

With a greek account no payments with paypal are possible, you can't even buy free apps (price tag: 0€), no orders from Amazon possible. No way to pay goods in other countries as the payments are now forbidden.
Yanis Varoufakis and Mr Tsipras promised the banks would be open on Tuesday, they just didn't mention what year this will be. They also promised a solution to the financial crisis within 48 hours after the referendum
Today the secretaries of finance of the eurozone where expecting new proposals from the greek government, and, as usual, with no success. So maybe tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow
A tragedy for the people in greece, but a tragedy the majority voted for.
So no greek audio manufacturer can import goods he needs to build any audio gear, nobody would buy anyway in greece, as they have definitely other problems.

Nice synonym whats happening: in front of the former ECB headquarters in Frankfurt the Euro sculpture is being dismantled for renovation:

And another one, as only humor helps now:

I can't reed greek language, it certainly translates as something like this: "I, Alexis Tsipras, Captain of this proud vessel, hand over this ship to the greek people, there will be a solution in 48 hours, help is not far away"

wisnon · Jul 7, 2015

joecasey said:
Switzerland is a tiny country and IMO, the policies doesn't translate well to a larger country?

I agree corporate welfare is also a problem. I don't believe in too big to fail and have government picking winners and losers. Allow failures to go away and reallocate resources to new ideas. With QE and zero rate causing asset bubble and destroying fixed income. When interest only mortgage was created, it's a matter of time last bubble will bust. But don't see any indicators when this bubble will burst yet.

I'm not a Dem or Rep but a libertarian. I live in New Hampshire, "Live Free or Die". Well before got corrupted with Massachusetts transplants.

In regards to wars, the world should THANK us for all our sacrifices over the years. So you must be happy with current US hands off policy in the world where people are getting tortured and killed? Evil is not going away but growing and eventually somebody has to deal with it. For once, I want US to stay out and have somebody else take the lead. Is Switzerland stepping up? I'm holding my breath and counting ... 1, 2, ...

There was never any recent time when we didn't have torture and killings. Most of the time it was the Soviets and the Americans who propped up these same regimes till they exhausted their purpose. US Allies like Noriega/ Mobuto, Marcos, etc.. only have a limited shelf life. Vietnam was a waste of time (Gulf of Tomkin was false flag). We have to go back to WW2 to give props and even then the US came in very late...

allvinyl · Jul 7, 2015

rockitman said:
Greece needs to learn that putting radical leftists in charge is a bad idea. They really drank the kook aid and are still drunk on it by voting no on the referendum. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. Let it be a lesson to other countries who may consider electing radicals to run their government.

Yeah, look at Detroit, Baltimore, San Francisco, Washington, DC. Are we actually looking in the mirror or did we just glance, decide we didn't like what we see and just keep on goin'. We, too, can be Greece...

DaveC · Jul 7, 2015

wisnon said:
There was never any recent time when we didn't have torture and killings. Most of the time it was the Soiets and the Americans who propped up these same regimes till the exhusted their purpose. US Allies like Noriega/ Mobuto, Marcos, etc only have a limited shelf life. Vietnam was a waste of time (Gulf of Tonkin was false flag). We have to go back to WW2 to give props and even then Unclame came in very late...

Yup... Also, Obama just said something like "We tortured some folks" recently wrt the most recent wars we've been involved with and the numbers we've killed are staggering. We have no right to claim we are better than others when we have been involved in similar practices. IMO there's no doubt some of our former leaders should be in prison for war crimes.

joecasey · Jul 7, 2015

wisnon said:
There was never any recent time when we didn't have torture and killings. Most of the time it was the Soiets and the Americans who propped up these same regimes till the exhusted their purpose. US Allies like Noriega/ Mobuto, Marcos, etc only have a limited shelf life. Vietnam was a waste of time (Gulf of Tonkin was false flag). We have to go back to WW2 to give props and even then Unclame came in very late...

DaveC said:
Yup... Also, Obama just said something like "We tortured some folks" recently wrt the most recent wars we've been involved with and the numbers we've killed are staggering. We have no right to claim we are better than others when we have been involved in similar practices. IMO there's no doubt some of our former leaders should be in prison for war crimes.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree what's right and wrong.

wisnon · Jul 8, 2015

We can disagree about opinion, but not facts. Facts are very stubborn things.

Get rid of labels and ideology and think with a free and clear mind and dont be afraid of what you come to realize.

joecasey · Jul 8, 2015

wisnon said:
We can disagree about opinion, but not facts. Facts are very stubborn things.

Get rid of labels and ideology and think with a free and clear mind and dont be afraid of what you come to realize.

I think very clear and know my facts. Like I said, we just have to agree to disagree on good and evil.

dallasjustice · Jul 8, 2015

History tells us when capital controls take control and a currency dies off, there will be parallel currencies which rise up. It's human nature to trade. That won't stop. I wonder what the parallel currencies will be. I've heard stories about IOWs from the Government. I was in Moscow July 1998. Russia still had a significant military presence at that time. Boris Yeltsin said he wouldn't devalue the rubble on Friday. Come Monday, it was devalued numerous times and the military was given IOWs. It was chaotic and a little scary for a bit. I don't think Greece has a significant military so that's a positive. If this capital disruption continues on and I think it will, maybe bit coin can help a little with international transactions. Maybe even gold/silver could be used. Maybe other forms of payment will come into play. Currencies have always stood in the way of international trade. I've purchased gear from various countries all over the world and it's breathtaking to see how much money MY bank makes off me when I make a payment in another currency. I am totally in favor of parallel currencies. I personally think bit coin's value is too high due to excessive hot money speculation. But there's going to be a real need for these currencies in the future. All central banks have mismanaged things. If one reads the latest from the BIS and thinks they a credible, it's pretty clear all central banks will come under great scrutiny as the next imternational crisis unfolds. I think that's a healthy thing.

I don't blame the Greek people. They live in a screwed up circumstance. I blame the policy makers who are illiterate in economics and history.

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