Digitally Enhanced Vinyl Poll

CGabriel

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What determines the frequency for the resonance? Is that a function of the stylus or how the cartridge is manufactured? Is there a way to push the resonance out closer into the ultrasonic bandwidth?

Look at the resonant formula in the article that gary linked to. It is primarily a function of the inductance of the cartridge's coil. You cannot change this without changing the cartridge. I use a REF 5SE phono preamp which allows you to change the loading on the fly. It is very audible between different settings.

If your goal is to simply rip vinyl records to digital, I still think it would be to best to take the analog output from a good phono preamp. Substituting a mic preamp does not appear to have any advantages. JMO.
 

dallasjustice

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I'm still not sure why this wouldn't be an issue for all setups. Why would it matter whether I use a mic pre? I can certainly change the impedance as needed.

Look at the resonant formula in the article that gary linked to. It is primarily a function of the inductance of the cartridge's coil. You cannot change this without changing the cartridge. I use a REF 5SE phono preamp which allows you to change the loading on the fly. It is very audible between different settings.

If your goal is to simply rip vinyl records to digital, I still think it would be to best to take the analog output from a good phono preamp. Substituting a mic preamp does not appear to have any advantages. JMO.
 

dallasjustice

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jdubs

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Thanks Jim. I am probably going to have Scott Scheaffer build me a custom phono cable. Those cables look pretty cool though.

Custom as in built-in loading? I'm weighing doing this or just getting a phonostage to feed my Steinberg.

-Jim
 

dallasjustice

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Custom as in built-in loading? I'm weighing doing this or just getting a phonostage to feed my Steinberg.

-Jim

Yes, maybe. I want to hear whether this loading issue is really as big a deal as some would make it. I don't know. It seems like there are trade-offs, as in anything in audio.
 

dallasjustice

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There are some legit questions concerning the advantages to using a digital front end to process an LP. At first blush, the idea seems foolish. I'm aware of that.

ALL playback systems involve compromise. There is no such thing as an absolute best playback system and there's always room for significant improvement in musical listening. IMO, the largest areas for improvement relate to speakers/room. This is the low hanging fruit in ALL systems.

Sometimes experts get hung up on one very small part of a very complex system. These experts will tell you something MUST BE a certain way because they know what's best. I respect those folks but I also know how people can lose their perspective in this hobby.

Having said the foregoing, I think digital and vinyl are really very compatible and need each other to some degree. The following is a list of places where I think digital can improve the SYSTEM performance in an otherwise vinyl system.

1. DSP. There's been a lot of research and anecdotal evidence which proves that target based time/frequency correction yields MASSIVE improvements to the musical listening experience. For me, this is beyond debate. It applies to ALL systems. This can't be done in a purely analog system.

2. DIGITAL CROSSOVERS. I strongly believe in using strategically setup subs. IMO, subs really shouldn't be incorporated into a full range speakers system without crossovers. However, subs should almost never be placed next to a FR speaker. The time, phase and frequency issues can easily be dealt with in the digital domain. The bass quality and dynamic range improvements cannot be questioned here either. This can't be done in a purely analog system.

3. RIAA. RIAA correction is both a frequency and a phase correction. It can be done in either analog or digital domain. Digital offers a much more advanced, lower noise and accurate method for implementing the RIAA filter. Fewer parts, components and much greater accuracy is possible with digital.

Now, the big question is whether these digital tricks are also a compromise which would outweigh their advatages. If digital is done right, the compromises are de minimis.

With regard to HF ringing, this can be best dealt with by adjusting the target curve according to listening preference. I don't think it will be worth it for me to fiddle with a variety of loads at the expense of something else, when I can easily adjust the target curve HF rolloff according to my SYSTEM.

Michael.
 
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microstrip

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Thanks Jim. I am probably going to have Scott Scheaffer build me a custom phono cable. Those cables look pretty cool though.

What type of cables uses your tonearm? Most probably it is a balanced cable terminate by a phono RCA that can be easily converted to balanced just changing the plug. The cartridge is a balanced device.
 

dallasjustice

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I haven't purchased any gear yet. I've only demoed low cost TT. I am also looking at a Luxman DP-171 but it may be a little more than I want to spend. I've owned Luxman in the past and I've always liked the build quality and rich sound. We will see. The cabling will need to be balanced since my earthworks mic pre is balanced end to end.


What type of cables uses your tonearm? Most probably it is a balanced cable terminate by a phono RCA that can be easily converted to balanced just changing the plug. The cartridge is a balanced device.
 
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dallasjustice

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There's a good thread on DIYAUDIO which seems to comfirm some of my intuitions about what I am planning on doing; real time digital RIAA.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/268276-what-about-digital-riaa.html

It seems that Purevinyl's digital RIAA has been tested against CD counterparts and it wins even after the 24/192khz rip gets resampled down to 16/44.1khz.
http://www.channld.com/pure-vinyl_faq.html. It seems Rob Robinson's theory about why this may be the case is the mastering differences with vinyl. This matched up with some comments on another thread from Phillip O'hanlon and others.

Of course, I am not planning on storing digital files. I want to do a live vinyl/digital rig for a variety of reasons.
 
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dallasjustice

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I placed the order and my first vinyl rig will be:
Luxman pd-171AL, with upgraded jelco 750 tonearm and soundsmith zephyr MIMC cartridge. I will use a pair of earthworks 1021 mic pre amps for gain. They are capable of very low noise gain up to 60db, which should be sufficient for the .4mv output. I'll use balanced cabling as well.
 

jdubs

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There's a good thread on DIYAUDIO which seems to comfirm some of my intuitions about what I am planning on doing; real time digital RIAA.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/268276-what-about-digital-riaa.html

It seems that Purevinyl's digital RIAA has been tested against CD counterparts and it wins even after the 24/192khz rip gets resampled down to 16/44.1khz.
http://www.channld.com/pure-vinyl_faq.html. It seems Rob Robinson's theory about why this may be the case is the mastering differences with vinyl. This matched up with some comments on another thread from Phillip O'hanlon and others.

Of course, I am not planning on storing digital files. I want to do a live vinyl/digital rig for a variety of reasons.


Great thread to point out. Channel D has done a ton of work on digital RIAA correction and the results have spoken for themselves for a while now.

I'm very curious how close one can get to their correction with something like Audiolense's convolution correction.

-Jim
 

dallasjustice

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Michael

Are you planning on doing A->D conversion at 192khz? I started a thread on JRiver's forums to figure it out as ASIO Line-in "seems" restricted to 96khz:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99041.0

-Jim

Yes, Jim. I've already added that to the suggestion thread for JRMC 21. But I don't think Matt and company will care about vinyl. Over the years, there have been many folks asking for features like RIAA and higher sample rates in the ASIO line in. Jriver probably won't do anything more there.

BUT, I am pretty sure I will be streaming vinyl in a couple of weeks after I get back from my vacation to Telluride and Durango. I figured out a way to do it. I plan on using VB cable, ASIO Bridge. I believe it will work with 24/192 input on my Hilo USB. I can set the input on the bridge to my Hilo at 192khz and the output set to Jriver ASIO. I am pretty sure Jriver ASIO will play up to 192khz. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm reasonably confident it will work. If not, then I'll be doing 96khz via ASIO line in. OR, I might dust off the Acourate Convolver. I know Acourate Convolver has very capable I/O routing. I would just need to convert my Audiolense .wav files to .cpv format and setup my matrix in Acourate Convolver. I guess I could just use Acourate filters too. But, I've never felt comfortable creating filters in Acourate and I really like my Audiolense results.
 

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