Vertere RG-1 Turntable

isquirrel

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Sep 23, 2014
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I saw one of these at a friends house last week, didn't have a chance to listen to it. Has anyone heard it and have any comments on it?

Thanks
 

ashandger

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2013
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It was reviewed by Alan Sircom for HiFi+. He was extremely impressed and that was with the standard arm and not the Reference version. Michael Fremer did a video report on it from Munich and was also very impressed. This room was one of his favs. You will find his comments on his Analog Planet website.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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Touraj and Vertere are based in London. I happen to be in London for an extended period of time. I have been shopping for a new, ultimate turntable/tonearm combination, so I wanted to see and hear the RG-1 and the Reference tonearm.

I wrote an email to Vertere introducing myself and inquiring about how and where I can see and hear the Vertere products. I received no reply to the e-mail.

A couple of weeks later I called the company. I explained to the woman who answered the telephone that I sent an e-mail a couple of weeks earlier in the hope of scheduling a demo somewhere in London. The woman found my e-mail and assured me that someone would reply in about a week. Two months later I have received no reply.

From all accounts (and from video clips from audio show demos) Touraj clearly is a very experienced and very talented designer, but I do not know if he has a real business yet or is at this stage a "one man band."
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
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Utah
Touraj and Vertere are based in London. I happen to be in London for an extended period of time. I have been shopping for a new, ultimate turntable/tonearm combination, so I wanted to see and hear the RG-1 and the Reference tonearm.

I wrote an email to Vertere introducing myself and inquiring about how and where I can see and hear the Vertere products. I received no reply to the e-mail.

A couple of weeks later I called the company. I explained to the woman who answered the telephone that I sent an e-mail a couple of weeks earlier in the hope of scheduling a demo somewhere in London. The woman found my e-mail and assured me that someone would reply in about a week. Two months later I have received no reply.

From all accounts (and from video clips from audio show demos) Touraj clearly is a very experienced and very talented designer, but I do not know if he has a real business yet or is at this stage a "one man band."

AFAIK, Touraj's claim to fame was the ROKSAN table, a mediocre sounding mid-fi table at best, priced below the Linn Sondek as a marketing strategy. When did he achieve the super designer status? London would make a great trip but demoing a tone arm in ones own system is already a difficult task, in someone else's unknown setup is near impossible to figure out.
david
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Dear David,

I agree completely that hearing the Vertere set-up in an unfamiliar system would tell me very little. (But even just mechanically playing equipment sometimes can reveal early glitches and provide insight that a product is not ready for "prime-time.")

As long as I was in London, and as at least a couple of very knowledgeable WBF members have praised the Vertere tonearm, I thought it would be fun to at least see it and to get an impression of Touraj. (Some of the equipment in our hobby is horrifically expensive and I consider it quite important to have a good sense of the designer/builder and to have an understanding of his approach and attitude and whether he intends to be around in 20 years.)
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Wow! ddk - have you ever heard a Roksan Xerses in your own system? I've had the Air Force 1 and the Vertere SG-1 in my system, and while they were not at the same time, I used the same cartridge and electronics (and of course loudspeakers) on them. While they sound different, each had their strengths and weaknesses and I find the SG-1 and the AF1 comparable. The problem with a world-wide product is that you are dependent on the distributor. Roksan has never been well-represented in the US, and suffered as a result. But "mediocre mid-fi"???

However, I have to admit to a bias - I went to Imperial College with Touraj (where he was doing his PhD in Mechanical Engineering and I was in Computing Science). As part of a group of crazy audio-obsessed graduate and undergraduate students, we spent over 2 years identifying the mechanical and physics behind spinning a light, black disc and in the Roksan Xerses, Touraj addresses most of them.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Gary is one of the two "very knowledgeable WBF members" to whom I was referring. : )
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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AFAIK, Touraj's claim to fame was the ROKSAN table, a mediocre sounding mid-fi table at best, priced below the Linn Sondek as a marketing strategy. When did he achieve the super designer status? London would make a great trip but demoing a tone arm in ones own system is already a difficult task, in someone else's unknown setup is near impossible to figure out.
david

I still keep an original Roksan Xerxes in rosewood finish packed somewhere in my audio "museum" :). I had excellent sound with it using an Eminent Technology tonearm (also in storage ...) , although it looked weird, as the arm needed to be fitted in an oblique position.

At that time a good friend had the whole Roksan top system - arm and cartridge and the system was really enjoyable.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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I do not know how anyone could look at the Vertere products and watch Touraj explain the designs in the on-line videos and conclude anything other than that he is a very talented engineer with a genuine passion for our hobby.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Wow! ddk - have you ever heard a Roksan Xerses in your own system? I've had the Air Force 1 and the Vertere SG-1 in my system, and while they were not at the same time, I used the same cartridge and electronics (and of course loudspeakers) on them. While they sound different, each had their strengths and weaknesses and I find the SG-1 and the AF1 comparable. The problem with a world-wide product is that you are dependent on the distributor. Roksan has never been well-represented in the US, and suffered as a result. But "mediocre mid-fi"???

However, I have to admit to a bias - I went to Imperial College with Touraj (where he was doing his PhD in Mechanical Engineering and I was in Computing Science). As part of a group of crazy audio-obsessed graduate and undergraduate students, we spent over 2 years identifying the mechanical and physics behind spinning a light, black disc and in the Roksan Xerses, Touraj addresses most of them.

Hi Gary,

I bought a Roksan/Artemiz/Shiraz in the very early 90's, it only cost a few hundred pounds back then. My main tt was the Micro Seiki RX-5000 at that time but as usual had a few other tables sitting around including a LP12/Ittok/Asak. Needless to say that the Micro killed everything else, sonically and ergonomically. It wasn't bad but certainly never a high end design, it was made to compete in the mid-fi market and that's where it was competitive. The Artemiz arm by itself wasn't too bad, certainly better than the competing Rega arms but still nothing close to the high end arms of the period, FR-66s, 3012-R, SAEC 308L, Dyna 505, MS Max 282, etc.. I'm not knocking what he made for its intended market, but you have to admit making a connection from the budget priced Artemiz to the $35k RG-1 is a giant leap. (Edit) Has me made anything else in between that I'm unaware of?


david
 
Last edited:

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Dear David,

I agree completely that hearing the Vertere set-up in an unfamiliar system would tell me very little. (But even just mechanically playing equipment sometimes can reveal early glitches and provide insight that a product is not ready for "prime-time.")

As long as I was in London, and as at least a couple of very knowledgeable WBF members have praised the Vertere tonearm, I thought it would be fun to at least see it and to get an impression of Touraj. (Some of the equipment in our hobby is horrifically expensive and I consider it quite important to have a good sense of the designer/builder and to have an understanding of his approach and attitude and whether he intends to be around in 20 years.)

I agree Ron, if you're there it would be a nice opportunity to meet the man, he looks very pleasant in videos.

david
 

TBone

New Member
Nov 15, 2012
1,237
1
0
Wow! ddk - have you ever heard a Roksan Xerses in your own system? I've had the Air Force 1 and the Vertere SG-1 in my system, and while they were not at the same time, I used the same cartridge and electronics (and of course loudspeakers) on them. While they sound different, each had their strengths and weaknesses and I find the SG-1 and the AF1 comparable. The problem with a world-wide product is that you are dependent on the distributor. Roksan has never been well-represented in the US, and suffered as a result. But "mediocre mid-fi"???

However, I have to admit to a bias - I went to Imperial College with Touraj (where he was doing his PhD in Mechanical Engineering and I was in Computing Science). As part of a group of crazy audio-obsessed graduate and undergraduate students, we spent over 2 years identifying the mechanical and physics behind spinning a light, black disc and in the Roksan Xerses, Touraj addresses most of them.

Roksan has had decent representation in Canada; the original xerxes was quite popular here, a good LP12 alternative. But many encountered sagging issues, and subsequently, later models suffered in popularity. The current models 'r beautifully refined machines, although I have not heard one in a while.
 

TBone

New Member
Nov 15, 2012
1,237
1
0
Hi Gary,

I bought a Roksan/Artemiz/Shiraz in the very early 90's, it only cost a few hundred pounds back then. My main tt was the Micro Seiki RX-5000 at that time but as usual had a few other tables sitting around including a LP12/Ittok/Asak. Needless to say that the Micro killed everything else, sonically and ergonomically. It wasn't bad but certainly never a high end design, it was made to compete in the mid-fi market and that's where it was competitive. The Artemiz arm by itself wasn't too bad, certainly better than the competing Rega arms but still nothing close to the high end arms of the period, FR-66s, 3012-R, SAEC 308L, Dyna 505, MS Max 282, etc.. I'm not knocking what he made for its intended market, but you have to admit making a connection from the budget priced Artemiz to the $35k RG-1 is a giant leap. (Edit) Has me made anything else in between that I'm unaware of?


david

respectfully disagree, the xerxes was indeed a hi-end design, at least in my books. it had a very unique plinth, unique motor assembly, and a suspension that minimized much of the errors of sprung designs, while achieving similar results. imo, the original xerxes move the goalpost wider as compared to other, more standard LP12 mimics, of that time.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
respectfully disagree, the xerxes was indeed a hi-end design, at least in my books. it had a very unique plinth, unique motor assembly, and a suspension that minimized much of the errors of sprung designs, while achieving similar results. imo, the original xerxes move the goalpost wider as compared to other, more standard LP12 mimics, of that time.

I know where you're coming from TBone, my entire concept of a high end table changed when I bought a used RX-5000 in 1989, which was already a dated model by then.

david
 

TBone

New Member
Nov 15, 2012
1,237
1
0
I can understand that, mine changed when I started taking 'em apart, attempting to fix/mod 'em. nice to see others sharing the same luv for those legacy turntables, even when approached from different angles.

anthony
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
I can understand that, mine changed when I started taking 'em apart, attempting to fix/mod 'em. nice to see others sharing the same luv for those legacy turntables, even when approached from different angles.

anthony

Nice to meet you Anthony!

david
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Hi Gary,

I bought a Roksan/Artemiz/Shiraz in the very early 90's, it only cost a few hundred pounds back then. My main tt was the Micro Seiki RX-5000 at that time but as usual had a few other tables sitting around including a LP12/Ittok/Asak. Needless to say that the Micro killed everything else, sonically and ergonomically. It wasn't bad but certainly never a high end design, it was made to compete in the mid-fi market and that's where it was competitive. The Artemiz arm by itself wasn't too bad, certainly better than the competing Rega arms but still nothing close to the high end arms of the period, FR-66s, 3012-R, SAEC 308L, Dyna 505, MS Max 282, etc.. I'm not knocking what he made for its intended market, but you have to admit making a connection from the budget priced Artemiz to the $35k RG-1 is a giant leap. (Edit) Has me made anything else in between that I'm unaware of?


david

In the very early 1990's, that would be the very first version of the Xerses. The company only started in 1987. There were a number of problems with that first design that resulted in the plinth sagging as TBone said. Pinning the plinth up resulted in it sounding mediocre.

As a resident "industry expert" please have a look at what he has done over the past 25 years before making a statement like that. To judge Touraj's body of work based on his freshman design and to say that the Roksan Xerses is a mediocre mid-fi design is disappointing.
 

ashandger

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2013
406
174
348
In the very early 1990's, that would be the very first version of the Xerses. The company only started in 1987. There were a number of problems with that first design that resulted in the plinth sagging as TBone said. Pinning the plinth up resulted in it sounding mediocre.

As a resident "industry expert" please have a look at what he has done over the past 25 years before making a statement like that. To judge Touraj's body of work based on his freshman design and to say that the Roksan Xerses is a mediocre mid-fi design is disappointing.

+1. Totally agree Gary! BTW, Dato Han reviewed the Vertere Ref arm for Mono & Stereo with his AF1 and was hugely impressed and subsequently bought it I believe. He had previously also tested the SAT arm and was using the Graham.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
In the very early 1990's, that would be the very first version of the Xerses. The company only started in 1987. There were a number of problems with that first design that resulted in the plinth sagging as TBone said. Pinning the plinth up resulted in it sounding mediocre.

It was the main advantage of using the Eminent Technology - the inclination due to plinth sagging could be easily compensated using the three threaded pillar screws. Once this problem was overcome it was a perfect turntable.
 

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