Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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I gave Ron a design for custom diffusers that match his wall paneling too.
david
Problem is finding the right acoustician Duke, nearly 100% of the time when I do installations in so called "acoustician" designed audio rooms I end up tearing it down and often designing and building new acoustic accoutrements. Science of it pretty simple specially today but to find an artist with the needed experience and knowledge is very very very difficult!
david
I set up my room with great help of ASC, but for a large part it comes down to becoming intimately familiar with your own room and figuring out things on your own, step by step. It took me years to get it right, and get it right for my personal taste (sure, with my experience now I could achieve what I want faster if I had to do it over in another room, but it would still take me some time). No expert's work of a few days or even just hours can substitute for that, it's just not possible in my view.
Thank you, Christoph.
Based on my personal experience with dipole/planar speakers for over 20 years, I like to start by preserving as cleanly as possible the reflection of the back wave off of the front wall. So I start out with no diffusion, and certainly no absorption.
I TOTALLY GET what you are saying!! But I'm going to point my finger at conventional speakers, rather than at acousticians.
Most conventional speakers have lousy off-axis response which calls for absorption of at least some of the off-axis energy in order to "fix" them. But speakers which have well-behaved off-axis response don't need absorption to fix them, and so the reverberant energy can be managed in a way that allows it to decay more slowly, which contributes to liveliness and natural timbre.
You know what kind of speakers have this well-behaved off-axis response? Big horn speakers. You really oughtta give 'em a try some day.
;^)
Not too long ago I had the chance to try a pair of my speakers (medium-sized horn hybrids) in a room that had been professionally treated for conventional speakers. To my disappointment mine did not sound as lively as what I'm normally used to, and I think it was because the room treatment included considerably more absorption than my speakers were designed for.
So... taking out my broad brush and painting with it... and coming from a horn-ish background... I'm more inclined to fault "conventional speakers" for the issues they impose on acousticians, rather than the acousticians themselves.
Ron you have far more patience than I could ever muster up. My wife has had to grab me by the shirt on more than one occasion throughout the years to stop me from doing something potentially stupid. In you case I would have no shirts left.
Kudos to you my friend.
Kudos to you my friend.
The house repair project has been an unfortunate combination of deepening project and temporal complications. It didn't help that we made major, complex changes midstream throughout the repair/renovation process -- exactly what I know you're not supposed to do.
And I think our contractors were not cut out for the depth and complexity of the project that it evolved into over time.
And I think our contractors were not cut out for the depth and complexity of the project that it evolved into over time.
Ron, there is base profit in the project contract and then variations are viewed by contractors as pure cream.
Variations are just the outcome of the creative process as we proceed from design concept through to construction phase hence the need to have contingency allowance... but they are a very difficult thing to navigate and also then not lose sight of the $$$ budget impacts and or final completion timeframes.
I’m sure I’m not telling you anything that you don’t already know but truth is if we want to do something properly to lasting satisfaction that there can also accompany a sense of in someways having sold your soul to the devil when going into a build. Never give up, never give in.
The best possible outcome is that through all this somehow you still enjoy the process and reconcile all the costs with your various hopes, dreams and values.
You must have met a competent one Duke
! Like almost every other profession the really good ones are very few and very far in between and since this is the What's The Best Forums 2nd best doesn't cut it !Sure over time you hone in on problem areas of your room and fix them bit by bit to match your taste, but there are some who do know their craft and set up a room up to 70-80% and then fine tune from there.
david
A lot of rooms built and 'professionally' treated wind up looking unrecognizable from the original concept after a few years of audiophile residency. I guess it's best to regard them as a good starting point perhaps. It requires telepathy to establish a target curve based on a particular audiophile's brain and expectations.
I do wonder about the various studios set up by professionals for recording and playback. Do they have the same raft of complaints as the audiophile spaces, or are audiophiles just more individualistic and phlegmatic?
I do wonder about the various studios set up by professionals for recording and playback. Do they have the same raft of complaints as the audiophile spaces, or are audiophiles just more individualistic and phlegmatic?
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It seems everyone has a different name for the walls in their room
The FRONT wall is the wall behind the speakers, its the front wall because as I'm listening, it's in front of me.
Likewise, the BACK wall is behind me, thus the back wall
Make sense?
The FRONT wall is the wall behind the speakers, its the front wall because as I'm listening, it's in front of me.
Likewise, the BACK wall is behind me, thus the back wall
Make sense?
Yes, that is how I understand it as well. However, whenever I mention the term front wall, I qualify it with a brief explanation in brackets (wall behind speakers). Just to ensure there is no confusion
.Like any listening room there are good and bad mastering rooms and recording studios, professional doesn't mean dick today when anybody with a Mac and software is suddenly a recording "engineer" or recording "artist"!
david
Just wanted you to know that your post inspired me to remove some front wall treatments behind my Martin Logans - and for the better.
They were temporary treatments, but good tools in learning about my room and what I need to consider in my future design. What I learned is I just do not need them.
I'm not sure who said it first, but I read a good quote a few weeks ago that seems to apply.
"One can hear everything measured, but NOT measure everything one hears"......
.....or words to that affect.
I don’t know who said it first either but it’s been around for a while and many have argued for and against it.
david
I would to like to add that I plan on experimenting with diffraction behind my Martin Logans, for the learning experience.
In my old place to tame a centrally located fireplace and it's bricks I built a gently curved diffuser that had a little absorption ability. Worked great there but made for a tiny center stage in new room.
Prior to yesterday I was an advocate for absorbing at center stage, until I removed all of it and things opened up. I put it there in the first place for good reason, but when first, second and ceiling reflections were treated those reasons went away.
I think the thing to do is stay open minded, but start with a blank slate.
Someone told me in this forum to take care of everything else before touching the front wall of dipoles, and it was wise advice.
In my old place to tame a centrally located fireplace and it's bricks I built a gently curved diffuser that had a little absorption ability. Worked great there but made for a tiny center stage in new room.
Prior to yesterday I was an advocate for absorbing at center stage, until I removed all of it and things opened up. I put it there in the first place for good reason, but when first, second and ceiling reflections were treated those reasons went away.
I think the thing to do is stay open minded, but start with a blank slate.
Someone told me in this forum to take care of everything else before touching the front wall of dipoles, and it was wise advice.
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