Why Vintage WE sounds better than today's hifi

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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For those who have heard, and like, the WE room in Munich, there is a wealth of information on Lenco Heaven, and on this site

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post2948616

"I thought I'd elaborate on why the top sixties HiFi was better than most junk you buy today. But this is not for discussion. I will simply state 6 good reasons, and you can stuff them in your pipe and smoke them.

1) Engineers were older, had lived through WW2 and had a much broader background in Radio and antennas and high frequencies and would even make their own components like coils and oiled paper capacitors. They had far better mental arithmetic ability than most of you, and could use a Smith chart for matching impedance and a slide rule for calculation much faster than you can with computers:



2) I have no particular axe to grind on transistors versus valves, and in fact classic performers like the Radford STA25 had a single rail transistor preamplifier driving a valve output stage with a defined source impedance. But they were Class A designs with all the lovely cancellation of common-mode that makes them sound so good. The power supply for instance had only to drive a constant current and all electrolytic capacitors had the proper bias which keeps them linear.

3) Record pickups were wide bandwidth and low source inductance moving coil designs. These avoided trying to jump out of the groove due to LC resonances which plagued later moving magnet designs and LP crackle and pop was less obtrusive.

4) Bass speakers would often be 10" paper cones in huge solid closed boxes mounted literally as bookshelves against a wall. Tweeters would often be simple 3" paper cones with a single capacitor crossover. It didn't much matter how good the speaker surround was, because acoustic suspension essentially kept the speaker linear. Frequency response was probably not the last word, but rolled off gently. In fact the reputable WLM La Scala speakers rather recreate these babies.

5) Components like transistors were doubtless not as fast, but then feedback was kept much lower too, so gross distortions like slewing tended to be avoided in favour of gentle rolloff of frequency response.

6) Recording engineers really knew their equipment like the backs of their hands. They set up levels to avoid overload and at their peak would record straight to the record-cutting lathe via a mere couple of microphones with no recording console worth mentioning. The result was breathtakingly direct recordings like Count Basie with Frank Sinatra, which if you've never heard them on Vinyl with it's 70dB signal to noise ratio, well you haven't lived, my friends! "
 

bonzo75

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Here are a few things Joe Roberts commented on Lenco Heaven

"I never heard Line Magnetic but I heard GIP Vintage series (mesh 555 and 597A) sounding BETTER than the originals. The GIP "Field HiFi Series" 18" is one of the greatest cone speakers I ever heard.

I think WE design principles may outweigh the field coil aspect. You can field coil anything. Fertin might be the coolest but it has nothing to do with 1930 Western.

I heard a Chinese 597A tweeters (branded "Western Labo" ) in a 15A club installation with 41-42-43 amps and a 49 line amp. The tweeter was robotic sounding. Tone and feeling were way off. Switching to a pair of real WE597A totally changed the mood. Even non-audiophile people in the room instantly noticed.

Since the tweeter is so crucial, I'd look at the GIP. Suzuki makes several killer tweeters.

I estimate that GIP drivers will cost at least twice as much as LM, but they could be the best thing available on the planet. There is another line of GIP that is less expensive which doesn't emphasize the authentic cosmetics. I am pretty sure they use a lot of the same parts.

People seem to like the LM555. Maye you even heard them in Hamburg?

I like the price on LM a lot more! Actually, LM is too expensive also. ALL OF THIS STUFF IS TOO EXPENSIVE.


This is the big problem---> Western Electric is the Sport of Kings


I am not a king but I know some kings--or at least people who can blow $250-500k or more on audio at one time without blinking. These are the people who have the big complete Western setups. Very tough competition. People will pay crazy money for the best.

Extraordinary effort goes into every step toward this goal. This is true for collecting and restoring original gear and making perfectionist reproductions like Aldo and Suzuki. This is a totally dedicated subculture that has taken every detail to the extreme. Everything is under a magnifying glass and held to a high standard.

I played around a lot when it was more reasonable to own some nice WE gear. in Korea last month, I auditioned those Munich 15As using a 555 driver I sold to MJ back in 1988! He remembered the price ...$350. I said "That's OK. I robbed you anyway...it was only worth $200!" I probably paid $150.

I am really glad that I have cured myself of the desire to own this stuff. I know what it is and what it does and I love it, but I don't need to own it. As long as I get to listen a few times a year, I am happy.

I think a smart operator can do a Wide Range setup for less than an Asian businessman would pay for a turnkey system but it is not a poor man's game.

Just remember that you can't compromise the basics and if enough compromises and substitutions are made, it is no longer a WE system but an inspired collection of speaker components.

These damn drivers aren't even called "speakers" they are "Receivers" and "Loud Speaking Telephones." It is a different thing. Different world.

From what I have heard, sticking as closely as possible to the official WE program will take you to a special place.

Yeah, it sure sucks to be poor...but fortunately I can get by on ALTEC."
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Wonderful result are certainly possible with vinyl, and the recording and cutting engineers really know their craft, producing fine technical results from comparatively a rather limited medium.
Keith.

This.

Tim
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jun 30, 2010
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Unfortuntely you could argue that today, exactly the opposite state of affairs exists!
Keith

Not following you, Keith...slow brain day. The opposite of what state of affairs?

Tim
 

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