Best tonearm match for a Koetsu stone body?

bgupton

New Member
Sep 23, 2014
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San Francisco, CA
I'm currently running a Koetsu Blue Lace on a Brinkmann Oasis with a Graham Phantom Supreme II on an all Shindo (amp, pre-amp and speakers) system. I have this sneaky suspicion that the Graham isn't the best mate for the Koetsu.

Which arms are known to be fantastic matches for Koetsu stone bodies?

I may upgrade the entire table next year to a Garrard 301, so bonus points if the arm is also a great fit there. I'm open to new or used arms and budget is $6K-10K.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I'm using a SME Series V, but would suspect the Graham Elite and Kuzma 4 point would work as well. I know Rockitman is using the Graham
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I'm currently running a Koetsu Blue Lace on a Brinkmann Oasis with a Graham Phantom Supreme II on an all Shindo (amp, pre-amp and speakers) system. I have this sneaky suspicion that the Graham isn't the best mate for the Koetsu.

Which arms are known to be fantastic matches for Koetsu stone bodies?

I may upgrade the entire table next year to a Garrard 301, so bonus points if the arm is also a great fit there. I'm open to new or used arms and budget is $6K-10K.

If I may, I think that you'll be better off waiting to make your complete transition before changing arms now. You'll be able to get your new table and a new arm for what you're budgeting just for the arm now. In that category the Graham is already one of the better ones.

david
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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I'm currently running a Koetsu Blue Lace on a Brinkmann Oasis with a Graham Phantom Supreme II on an all Shindo (amp, pre-amp and speakers) system. I have this sneaky suspicion that the Graham isn't the best mate for the Koetsu.

Which arms are known to be fantastic matches for Koetsu stone bodies?

I may upgrade the entire table next year to a Garrard 301, so bonus points if the arm is also a great fit there. I'm open to new or used arms and budget is $6K-10K.

What gives you that impression?
 

BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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I used the Fidelity Research FR66S--stellar with the K's Onyx long bodies I owned

BruceD
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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San Francisco, CA
Seems unable to maintain consistently high quality sound. It will go from absolutely stunning to just really, really good after about a week of being set up. I know that may be a lot to ask, but it's frustrating to know what something is capable of doing but not getting it consistently.
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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Of all the arms I currently own (Phantom I, II, Elite, Tri U2, Excalibur, 4-Point) I would say my Jade mated best with the Triplanar. I haven't tried it on the 4-Point yet because I'm still having a blast with the TD and GF S on the Elite. When I get to mount the 4-Point on the AF1, I'll give the Jade a go on it. The best I think I've heard Koetsus are on vintage SME arms such as the 3009s and 3012s. I think there is some magic there. In the future I hope to have a vintage system in our planned rest house. I'd love to have that fronted by a good idler and a 3012 with a Koetsu and some SPUs. Why vintage? Why a rest house? A rest house is for change of pace so I'd love to have a system there that is analogous to a change of pace as well. While the main rig is imaging centric I would love to have a system that leans towards big tone and texture with imaging as the after thought.
 
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Altanpsx

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Sep 10, 2014
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ikeda 407, look no further.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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San Francisco, CA
My setup guy has hypothesized that the Koetsu stone bodies are likely more susceptible to temperature variations than most cartridges out there. This hypothesis does seem to be bearing itself out.

When we did the setup, it was an unusually warm day. I live at the top of a hill and my house has huge walls of windows. It was easily 85 degrees inside the day we did the setup.

The sound kinda went bad when it got really chilly for a few weeks. Living in the San Francisco Bay Area, non one really has central air. I usually leave the windows open on warm days (not always cool enough) and typically only put the heat on when it's really chilly.

I started putting a lamp on the cart/arm and that helped some, but it has still been fairly chilly out and I've left the heater set to 70 degrees.

It's much warmer today and the really explosive dynamics have returned. So maybe there's nothing wrong with the arm/cart match after all. Maybe it's just that the stone body carts aren't the best idea for a room that will have wide temperature fluctuations.

Any stone body owners experience this?
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Any stone body owners experience this?

Haven't really noticed this. Keep the studio quite cool in the Summer (66-67), whereas in the winter it can get 10 degrees or more warmer. Sometimes have to run the AC in the Winter!
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Another possibility is that there might be a bit to much damping fluid in the pivot cup bg.
 

bgupton

New Member
Sep 23, 2014
109
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0
San Francisco, CA
Haven't really noticed this. Keep the studio quite cool in the Summer (66-67), whereas in the winter it can get 10 degrees or more warmer. Sometimes have to run the AC in the Winter!

I guess it would depend on how much fluctuation causes the issue. Warmer temps seems to make my system sound great, which sucks because I prefer it to be about 68 degrees. :)

It's possible that the temp fluctuations aren't affecting the cart adversely, but maybe affecting the viscosity of the Graham's damping fluid. Or it could even be that the temp is affecting the speakers. Difficult to know, but living in a house with wildly fluctuating temps probably isn't going to help any of these potential issues.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
My setup guy has hypothesized that the Koetsu stone bodies are likely more susceptible to temperature variations than most cartridges out there. This hypothesis does seem to be bearing itself out.

When we did the setup, it was an unusually warm day. I live at the top of a hill and my house has huge walls of windows. It was easily 85 degrees inside the day we did the setup.

The sound kinda went bad when it got really chilly for a few weeks. Living in the San Francisco Bay Area, non one really has central air. I usually leave the windows open on warm days (not always cool enough) and typically only put the heat on when it's really chilly.

I started putting a lamp on the cart/arm and that helped some, but it has still been fairly chilly out and I've left the heater set to 70 degrees.

It's much warmer today and the really explosive dynamics have returned. So maybe there's nothing wrong with the arm/cart match after all. Maybe it's just that the stone body carts aren't the best idea for a room that will have wide temperature fluctuations.

Any stone body owners experience this?

No I didn't notice when I reviewed the Azule Platinum in the VPI 3D arm. It had awesome dynamics and ability to resolve space as I wrote in my review.
 

Maniax

New Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I previously used my Koetsu Jade with the Basis Vector 4 tonearm: It worked, but needed more damping fluid to manage the low compliance.

I recently changed to a Thales Simplicity 2 tonearm with the TTT-Compact table. It works like a dream with the Koetsu, and I have had no issues with tracking. The 3 tonearm weights also aid me in getting the right VTF. No tracking error so far, even without damping.
Lastly with the tonearm, the lack of tracking error near the end of the LP allows me to enjoy those end songs more.

High recommended.
 

Brian Walsh

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2011
336
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935
ttsetup.com
I just noticed this thread. One of my customers purchased a Kuzma 4Point from me to mount on his Jean Nantais Lenco 'table, fitted with a Koetsu Coralstone. The match proved to be extremely good.

I have traveled far and wide to do such installations.
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
895
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930
I believe an Ikeda arm might be the perfect choice. I do know that the arm is built with great attention to detail, and is literally a work of art. In fact, I was surprised at its beauty the first time I held one in my hands because in photos it doesn't look so hot to me. Anyway, it is also worth considering because it has a Koetsu friendly effective mass.

RE: Putting lamps on cartridges.
One cartridge manufacturer once went on a major rant to me about a guy who melted the suspension of a brand new cartridge by doing that. Personally, I would be cautious.
 

jdza

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2010
294
255
1,513
I have used Koetsu stone bodies uninterupted for 20 years. During that time it has been with Goldmund,Breuer ,FR 64 fx (2) ,FR 64 S (2) , SME V, Souther! and Koetsus own SA 1100D.

For nearly a decade the Koetsu sat in a SME V. I firmly believed that was the best option. Looking back I cannot believe how the SME stifled that cart,giving it the textbook Koetsu qualities of lumpy bass,thickened mids,dull trebles and dynamic constriction.

The Breuer was exquisite but ultimately small sounding, the Goldmund brilliant but flawed , causing way too much angst,the Souther hilarious and scary-such visible resonance has to be experienced,The FR64 fx did nothing wrong but failed to excite. The FR64S made the Koetsu come alive like no other bar one but there is a definite resonance causing a glare and restriction of dynamics in the upper mids.

The one for me is the ancient Koetsu tonearm.Looks like nothing or a Jelco,wobbly but sonically it just does it all.It allows the cart to soar with unbelievable speed ,clean but full bass all with that special tonality and the lowest groove noise I ever encountered .

As for warming up; I am always astonished how bad the Koetsu sounds for the first 20 minutes ,making it impossible to decide on the correct absolute phase. Then suddenly towards the end of the first side played for the day it will open up ,free itself and bloom. Only one thing worse-an ice cold Studer A80.
 

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BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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Yes I had Koetsus in my Breuer Arms-- the 12"was better --I agree on the 64S--tried that as well but the 66ss was another story so much more alive presentation

Yes I considered a Koetsu Arm-mid 80's but passed for the ego tripping above

Ancillary's used Cotter 2L Klyne Phono

Silly Moi!

Luv the big Thorens there wow!

Bruce D
 

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