Reference Turntable, The Step Beyond
- Thread starter ddk
- Start date
Yesterday, Dietrich came again to install his custom Axiom 14” on the 927. My first plan was to put just one Axiom as the second arm of EMT. Then that ego of mine kicked in and say heck I never seen a 927 with a modern arm in the original arm placement. let’s Let’s take out the original Ortofon arm that came with it and replace with another Axiom. So I had Dietrich came, do his homework and went back to Germany to fabricate what necessary. Now I have two special Axioms on the 927. Both are about 14”. One with an adaptability of SME headshell. The other is using fixed Arche headshell. Dietrich made a special armbase that can clamp very tightly with the spring suspension frame of the EMT. This armbas is pretty cool differing from Airbearing’s design that he showed me and I actually made a copy but never put into use. This armbase can be adjustd and slide in both X and Y axis. I put the AtlasSL on the first arm where used to be the Ortofon 297 to learn more the sound of the 927. The back arm I planned to mount my new Top Wing Red Sparrow. Unfortunately, the new Red Sparrow came with a skew cantilever. Actually I detect that since it was in the box and I did not open the box til today when both dealer and Dietrich came to witness and opened the box. I shut up and didn’t tell them what I saw. I opened the box and gave the cart to Dietrich to mount in front of my dealer. Then Dietrich made funny face and said better not mount the cart because the cantilever is skew to the right. Then my dealer had a funny face now...hahaha. Let’s see how this new cart manufacturer would respond to his replacement request. We mounted the AS Palladian in the second arm instead. The sound? Let’s just say I have been listening to the 927 more than the other two tts I have for the past two months or so. With the Axioms on now, I like its sound even “more more” than when it had a vintage Ortofon on (probably because I am not in the vintage age group of ddk and Airbearing..hahaha 
). Scheherazade on this tt doesn’t sound forcefully excited like when on AF1. Different cup of coffee. It is good to have different cups and able to choose which cup you want to drink at time.
Btw, I now have a stepup transformer using with the EMT phono and it sounds better with the Stepup as Airbearing said some where before.
Tang
). Scheherazade on this tt doesn’t sound forcefully excited like when on AF1. Different cup of coffee. It is good to have different cups and able to choose which cup you want to drink at time. Btw, I now have a stepup transformer using with the EMT phono and it sounds better with the Stepup as Airbearing said some where before.
Tang
Nice one Tang
Your next task is to test out both tonearm versions and tell us all which one sounds better. Removable or Fixed headshell
+1
Tang great photos mate
Makes me want to buy those axioms tonearm just so I can turn the verniers lol
Dear Tang,
beautiful tonearms you have there, works of art. got to be a pleasure in the use, not even talking about the sound.
congrats,
best regards,
Mike
beautiful tonearms you have there, works of art. got to be a pleasure in the use, not even talking about the sound.
congrats,
best regards,
Mike
Thank you guys. I can’t say much about the sound right now because my first Axiom took about 3 weeks to fully breakin. The impression now with my familiar AtlasSL is that I get all the attributes I like when it was on the Ortofon plus extra details and resolution. Surprising, I am still getting good body and texture in mids just the same as when it was on Ortofon. The vtf on SL is 1.86. I used to have 1.7 when it was on Ortofon.
Tang
Tang
Yesterday, Dietrich came again to install his custom Axiom 14” on the 927. My first plan was to put just one Axiom as the second arm of EMT. Then that ego of mine kicked in and say heck I never seen a 927 with a modern arm in the original arm placement. let’s Let’s take out the original Ortofon arm that came with it and replace with another Axiom. So I had Dietrich came, do his homework and went back to Germany to fabricate what necessary. Now I have two special Axioms on the 927. Both are about 14”. One with an adaptability of SME headshell. The other is using fixed Arche headshell. Dietrich made a special armbase that can clamp very tightly with the spring suspension frame of the EMT. This armbas is pretty cool differing from Airbearing’s design that he showed me and I actually made a copy but never put into use. This armbase can be adjustd and slide in both X and Y axis. I put the AtlasSL on the first arm where used to be the Ortofon 297 to learn more the sound of the 927. The back arm I planned to mount my new Top Wing Red Sparrow. Unfortunately, the new Red Sparrow came with a skew cantilever. Actually I detect that since it was in the box and I did not open the box til today when both dealer and Dietrich came to witness and opened the box. I shut up and didn’t tell them what I saw. I opened the box and gave the cart to Dietrich to mount in front of my dealer. Then Dietrich made funny face and said better not mount the cart because the cantilever is skew to the right. Then my dealer had a funny face now...hahaha. Let’s see how this new cart manufacturer would respond to his replacement request. We mounted the AS Palladian in the second arm instead. The sound? Let’s just say I have been listening to the 927 more than the other two tts I have for the past two months or so. With the Axioms on now, I like its sound even “more more” than when it had a vintage Ortofon on (probably because I am not in the vintage age group of ddk and Airbearing..hahaha
Btw, I now have a stepup transformer using with the EMT phono and it sounds better with the Stepup as Airbearing said some where before.
View attachment 40420
Tang
Dear Tang,
Is Dietrich a Thai citizen now
? Very nice taking the Beyond even further out there!david
Tang,
Now you got the best of the two worlds, one of the best vintage tables and maybe the best modern tonearm/cart combination.
Next step could be a real air based system...
Enjoy
E.
Now you got the best of the two worlds, one of the best vintage tables and maybe the best modern tonearm/cart combination.
Next step could be a real air based system...
Enjoy
E.
I am just following your lead E.
I just saw you made another move advancing your Caeles another step beyond. Can’t be still, can you?
Kindest regards,
Tang
I am just following your lead E.
I just saw you made another move advancing your Caeles another step beyond. Can’t be still, can you?
Kindest regards,
Tang
It might be a disease we are sharing. As long as there is still some space to go beyond it might be fine. What happens when this will come to an end?
All the best
E.
www.AudioCirc.com
EMT 930-927 three phase drive
My first post here just read about the EMT 927 turntable I not sure if you know that the motor in the EMT 930 and 927 are both 3 phase synchronous motors.
They are used now with the so called Steinmetz drive which is not the optimum drive for min.vibration as I measured with several vibration measurements.
Also the mechanical speed regulator causes extra noise with the analog 3 phase drive this can be removed .
Sometimes the inverter from Siemens is used also these results are not optimum as well as a lot of pollution.
My first post here just read about the EMT 927 turntable I not sure if you know that the motor in the EMT 930 and 927 are both 3 phase synchronous motors.
They are used now with the so called Steinmetz drive which is not the optimum drive for min.vibration as I measured with several vibration measurements.
Also the mechanical speed regulator causes extra noise with the analog 3 phase drive this can be removed .
Sometimes the inverter from Siemens is used also these results are not optimum as well as a lot of pollution.
I have tried various controllers with my 927 and in the end prefer the sound with the mechanical regulator, even if imperfect.
The only time I've seen that cheap Siemens controller used for this application is from the liar & thief Stephan Goetze of Gecom Technologies. You're absolutely correct about the pollution aspect of it too, just plugging it in the same room will destroy the sound of any system no less having it near highly sensitive turntable setups. The picture you're showing looks like his lab.
david
Hi Volken,
Of course there are different ways to design a 3 phase supply/controller but I have tried one and it does reduce vibration. Aside from the reduced vibration I didn't find much difference sonically using a 3 phase or single phase supply, I got the same type of sound and gained similar fluidity bypassing the mechanical brake with both supplies but I still felt that I was giving up something in the overall sound and character of the 927 so I went back to the mechanical speed control. For me the 927 is one of the two best turntables ever made and almost perfect sonically or what I care for and IME any change even one resulting benefits in some parameters was in the end negative sonically.
What did you measure the peak demand of the 927 motor at?
david
The EMT927 motor current at 226 Volt is 0.173A about 39 VA .
The two vibration spectrum measurements show the asis vibration,, after tuning the phase network from the motor for min.vibration,, and with the 3 phase powersupply vibration .
Important for a sonic improvement is the use from a so called clean sinewave from the oscillator <0.02% thd. and stable because the mains supply has a lot off harmonics .
Volken
I use a regenerator and have the clean sine wave for all my turntables but in single phase. I know the motors have less vibration with 3 phase but I don't hear the sonic benefit with my turntables to do it.
david
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