Groove Life - RANT!
- Thread starter Johnny Vinyl
- Start date
The big boy speaker mfrs best make their hay whilst the sun shines because once that niche market of we old farts is slobbering in a bib at the constant care facility, it will disappear...poof. Ask a sample of millennials how many would pay $15K let alone $50K for loudspeakers and report back. Once the baby boomers and a handful of Gen-Xers are history so is the uber expensive loudspeaker market...and I have little sympathy.. The free market will take over and sensibility will be restored...heh heh..
I agree with his sentiments exactly. Every show I have attended in the last few years has had a can room. It is always packed. It is where the young people hang out at the show. I would like the high end guys focus more on some less expensive gear and see the magazines give it more coverage. To me it seems as though companies, as they see the number of buyers falling off, come out with even more expensive stuff trying to make up the difference. Kind of like CD pricing, the less they sold, the higher went the msrp. Gee, how did that turn out?
Ask the nouveau riche in Asia first. That's the market that is demanding the absurdly priced products.
The linked article makes some decent points, but I'm not sure how much critical thought went into the conclusions that he's making. To wit:
1. The issue of music choice doesn't matter at a headphone-based event because there is one listener at a time. If this were possible with the hotel rooms, I doubt the music would be as big an issue as it is. I've also asked exhibitors if I could come early/stay late and play my own music. They've generally been agreeable to it.
I also think that the popularity of music servers is really making this almost a non-issue. A good exhibitor will have a server filled with a large variety of music genres and will hand the controller to whoever wants to choose music. You may not hear the exact track you want to, but you will find something you're familiar with (unless you're really into German Industrial or something). I feel that it's a good compromise.
Will there still be some exhibitors that will insist on curating the music played, and stick with the same dull female vocal tracks? Sure. But they are best ignored.
2. The personal audio market is a maturing market, and the prices are increasing VERY quickly. Yes, some companies are making affordable gear with incredible performance for the price. This is true in the 2-channel market as well. But the critics seem to ignore that fact.
It will be interesting to see how they react to Schiit (one of the darlings of the personal audio crowd) as they move into the 2-channel arena and continue to produce more expensive (but still good value) gear.
3. It's true - most 2-channel enthusiasts don't own multiple DACs, amps, etc. But he fails to give any reason why having multiples is a good thing, he just seems to assume the reader knows that it is.
Good points in the article.
Unfortunately, an economic truth is that when smaller and smaller numbers of high and higher quality products are in demand, the price goes up and up.
Unfortunately, an economic truth is that when smaller and smaller numbers of high and higher quality products are in demand, the price goes up and up.
Our most popular amplifier is our M-60, which has a base (no options) retail price of $7100/pair. But one of our larger distributors won't buy them- he only buys our larger amps, which cost a whole lot more. He says that his wealthy customers don't want to look like they are on a budget.
There is also that thing called the Veblen Effect. A lot of products made for high end are priced for Veblen, so to speak (We price according to a formula, which causes our products to be cheaper, but in price only). If you are into bicycles, the story of Sun Tour is interesting. They made the best derailleurs back in the 1970s and early 1980s, but they were cheap because they were priced to a formula. OTOH Campagnolo priced what the market would bear and even though not as good, were often 5x-10x what Sun Tour was getting. That aspect is so prevalent that even today Campy's used/vintage hardware from that period still goes for big bucks on ebay. The thing is, many people into bikes don't even know that Sun Tour had made better product; they simply think Campy made the best. That is how powerful the Veblen Effect is.
There is also that thing called the Veblen Effect. A lot of products made for high end are priced for Veblen, so to speak (We price according to a formula, which causes our products to be cheaper, but in price only). If you are into bicycles, the story of Sun Tour is interesting. They made the best derailleurs back in the 1970s and early 1980s, but they were cheap because they were priced to a formula. OTOH Campagnolo priced what the market would bear and even though not as good, were often 5x-10x what Sun Tour was getting. That aspect is so prevalent that even today Campy's used/vintage hardware from that period still goes for big bucks on ebay. The thing is, many people into bikes don't even know that Sun Tour had made better product; they simply think Campy made the best. That is how powerful the Veblen Effect is.
This has to be one of the best posts I have read on WBF! So VERY VERY true!!! In the 70's and 80's my bro, who is an avid cyclist, had both Sun Tour and Campy. He paid the big $$ for the Campy gear, BUT was always telling people that in his humble opinion, the Sun Tour was better. He still bought both. Guess what, NOBODY believed him about the Sun Tour...( or would to this day). He sold the Sun Tour for no money after awhile, he kept the Campy....which today puts a smile on his face.
In our hobby, I see people do EXACTLY the same thing every day....they buy the price! Pure and simple....THEY BUY THE PRICE!! Do they use their ears as the final determinant, HECK no!!! Then what surprises me ( well not really these days) they shout to the heavens IF anyone has the unmitigated gall to state that there could possibly be better gear out there that costs FAR less. What happened to the old idea of leaving the price tag behind and simply letting the sound of the gear ( preferably in one's own system) speak for itself??
Ralph, you say that the M-60 is your most popular piece...that's good to hear. Presumably your customers are in fact listening to the various pieces in your line.( Or maybe NOT, based upon what is offered to them by your distributor.)
Maybe my exposure to "the business" is not extensive enough, or maybe it's too localized (Brazil/SoCal), but I honestly haven't met THAT guy, THAT kind of audiophile/customer, the "BUY THE PRICE" guy...
Really, everybody that I dealt with were price conscious, and were always looking for the best price/performance ratio when making a purchase in audio.
Before I actually jumped to the "other side", I did buy fairly expensive products, but always had a thought for price/performance. Hence, my choice of the darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp, which, while expensive, includes a kick-a**, dead quiet phono stage. So I was not only saving quite a bit in gear, but also in cables.
Still, to this day, I always try to approach people's needs from that angle, price/performance.
alex
Really, everybody that I dealt with were price conscious, and were always looking for the best price/performance ratio when making a purchase in audio.
Before I actually jumped to the "other side", I did buy fairly expensive products, but always had a thought for price/performance. Hence, my choice of the darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp, which, while expensive, includes a kick-a**, dead quiet phono stage. So I was not only saving quite a bit in gear, but also in cables.
Still, to this day, I always try to approach people's needs from that angle, price/performance.
alex
A friend of mine is a manufacturer of high end turntables (a look at my avatar gives away who that is). His largest current market is Asia and former Soviet Bloc countries, mostly Asia. Dealers over there were less likely to take on his products until they were 6 figures retail. For the reasons stated in another post, buyers don't want to appear to be budget conscious. Unfortunately, the backlash puts many of these products out of the reach of many of us and completely turns off the younger generation of would-be audiophiles that should be replacing us when we shuffle off this mortal coil.
I manufacture high-end loudspeakers and they top out at $360,000. For the "mere mortals" I have an entry level series starting at $4,800 for a bookshelf. These are what I use at home and for my own enjoyment, and are every bit as good as my flagship model when used in an appropriate sized room. However, I have sold less PAIRS of my $4,800 loudspeakers than my $85,000 loudspeaker.
I should probably point out that many people see the value in statement level "end-of-the-road" equipment as getting off the buying merry-go-round. When you add up all the money that you could spend in upgrading to the next best, then a little better, etc., you may discover that you will have spent the amount of money that the 6 figure component costs.
there are more than a few here who have multiple amps, tt's, arms, cartridges, digital units, and even speakers that collectively exceed the most expensive single choice. there is no one right way to scratch your itch.
i'm 'end of game' for most all my gear. i'm not lusting after other stuff anymore....however I do miss 'the chase' and excitement of anticipated changes. and miss talking about my choice process. it's like part of the hobby I enjoyed is missing to me. yet i'm totally happy with the music.
And those "little" ones sound mighty good. I'm sure you remember me listening to them at Taves, along with the G5s, and commenting about their balance and cohesion across the bandwidth.
I hear ya Mike. I've decided that I am end game too (if my wife reads this she's going to try to hold me to it). My system is musical, satisfying and keeps my toes tapping. Besides, our youngest is off to college in September, and my son and I are off to Nepal/Mt. Everest in October. Monies are getting committed elsewhere these days. Unfortunately I will miss getting the opportunity of getting caught up with you at RMAF.
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