Been a while, and have just started to catch up on your latest experiments. So I can follow the gyst of the last several weeks/few months...you've essentially been adding more and more thick gauge wires to your chassis...all connected to the same grounding point? Just trying to make sure i understand what technically you've been doing. Sounds very good!
Hi Lloyd, I am still using the preamp as my star point. The added cables are now all zero gauge. My DAC and transport now have 2 zero gauge cables attached. Next week I'll add the final cables to my P300 psycho acoustics amp and my dual sub Parasound amp
After that I believe the system will be noiseless and will end this experiment.
Thanks for the review,but one must hear it in person to really appreciate what this level of grounding can do. I think it has been wholly transformative overall. I can't judge it to other systems,but I'm happy as hell with it.
Great stuff RogerD...thanks for the refresher. As with all things, its about experimenting...but is your work suggesting that even for Tripoint/Entreq systems...that using these 0 gauge cables will drive performance? Have your most recent results been about these thick gauge cables? Certainly, over the last few years, both Tripoint/Entreq have come back to the market with refinements around their basic system concepts involving upgraded cables.
Lloyd, What I do directly,the other configurations do indirectly,but is the same principle. Because most signal grounding is tied into the chassis ground,using the chassis only should have the same result. The only difference is I have found that increasing the size of the pathway (cable) is more efficient. Since the chassis ground does not directly intersect the signal path copper stranded cable is for this purpose a very good match. It is readily available and relatively cheap. You can go on a auction sight and buy a 6ft made up cable for about $35 which is more than fair.
So when I'm all done and just have the zero gauge cables left in place...1 for my electronic crossover,1 for the sub amp,4 for the preamp to mono blocks,1 for my psycho acoustics amp,2 for the Sony transport,and 2 for the tube DAC. Eleven total and at some point I will have a copper buss bar made to attach to the preamp and connect all the cables to that bar, just so it is cleaner.
There are already manufacturers making larger cables for the Entreq and Troy. I think copper is sufficient,because they all do the same thing. In my experience this extreme grounding effects 4 things profoundly....clarity,sound stage,bass,and above all moves the listener closer to the music. Recordings do not sound like recordings because the information recovered includes the venue where space and time become a major part of the recording....even in studio sessions. In a live setting it is even more dramatic,as the microphone position is clearly recognised.
Your Entreq system should be easy to convert or experiment with.....a proper length to fit and the cable lugs with 5/16ths holes should fit fine. The only problem is adding a cable will reset all your cables and the time to settle in on my system fully has been up to 200 hours. You should hear a difference immediately....the water is there.....take a sip.
It's done! So i finally (after a year of dreading it)...unplugged the entire Tripoint Troy grounding box which had only 10 connections from when we first moved into the new place. I knew there were 4 more connections to make, but because of how one has to actually go about getting under the equipment rack...pull out 76 lbs, connect 5 spaces per lug...tighten...cables...mess...weight...heat...
...but its done! Bless my wife for taking no prisoners once we started and holding fast to this for a solid sweaty hour of pulling cables, reconnecting, heaving, placing spikes, etc...
Now we have all 4 Zanden boxes, CJ Preamp connected, plus 6 Receivus' connected which look after the power conditioner, Zanden Transport PSU, Zanden DAC/PSU and Gryphon.
RogerD - I have you to thank with you recent posts and enthusiasm for getting me to finally do it. Already can hear it was totally worth it. more to come as you have often said...it takes hours to get most of it and then days to get it totally stable about 10+/- days for me...
It's done! So i finally (after a year of dreading it)...unplugged the entire Tripoint Troy grounding box which had only 10 connections from when we first moved into the new place. I knew there were 4 more connections to make, but because of how one has to actually go about getting under the equipment rack...pull out 76 lbs, connect 5 spaces per lug...tighten...cables...mess...weight...heat...
...but its done! Bless my wife for taking no prisoners once we started and holding fast to this for a solid sweaty hour of pulling cables, reconnecting, heaving, placing spikes, etc...
Now we have all 4 Zanden boxes, CJ Preamp connected, plus 6 Receivus' connected which look after the power conditioner, Zanden Transport PSU, Zanden DAC/PSU and Gryphon.
RogerD - I have you to thank with you recent posts and enthusiasm for getting me to finally do it. Already can hear it was totally worth it. more to come as you have often said...it takes hours to get most of it and then days to get it totally stable about 10+/- days for me...
Good job Lloyd !! You're right it does take 10 days sometimes,but so worth it. Depending where your at in process it does get better. For me it's like the whole orchestra is in the room and that's at normal listening levels. Keep at it....it is well worth it. Roger
RogerD...i am nowhere NEAR your level of grounding! But I will certainly enjoy this next level of improvements over the next several hours and days. Then I need to think about what you've been saying about grounding speakers/sub.
RogerD...i am nowhere NEAR your level of grounding! But I will certainly enjoy this next level of improvements over the next several hours and days. Then I need to think about what you've been saying about grounding speakers/sub.
Lloyd I'm running 5 amplifiers in my setup,which includes the FSR18. I use 2 8 gauge straps for it to my preamp. By far the digital system benefited most with 4 zero gauge straps.
Lloyd I'm running 5 amplifiers in my setup,which includes the FSR18. I use 2 8 gauge straps for it to my preamp. By far the digital system benefited most with 4 zero gauge straps.
Great stuff! I do have all 4 boxes of the Zanden now 'strapped' as you say with grounding cables...should hit 3 hours in about 30 min. That's generally been the next jump, more or less. Then 2 days, then about 10 days.
Great stuff! I do have all 4 boxes of the Zanden now 'strapped' as you say with grounding cables...should hit 3 hours in about 30 min. That's generally been the next jump, more or less. Then 2 days, then about 10 days.
Day 2 The bass improves and by day 10 I think it will be better. I am surprised how much the strapping of the two secondary amps improved the whole system. After these have settled completely I'm going to add straps to the mono blocks and that will do it. Those Platinum mono blocks have such large transformers I'm betting there is more leakage to go back to ground. The quality of the bass now vibrates the entire room and floor at my normal listening levels. I have to tell you it is a big rush,the recording of the Philadelphia Pipe organ had me jumping up and down...lol.
Tomorrows the 10th day for me and It's starting to come up,but I think it will take longer as the last straps reset the system in a major way. I can always tell when the increased grounding will make a big difference because it resents the entire frequency spectrum,the Lows,mids and highs.
I played Keith Jarrett @ Carnegie Hall tonight and the resolution was the best I've ever heard it. Keith was a real PITA making noises and tapping his feet,it seemed like the perspective was real close. I think the final straps on the mono blocks will put me at the microphone in this recording. I also played Pomp and Pipes and the power of the bass was truly spectacular. I have listened to this recording many times but never experienced it like today.
I'll be glad to be done with this experiment. Ever since November I have been increasing the grounding and I am tired of the continual break in process of the whole circuit. Is it worth it? Yes,the knowledge alone is worth it and as far as money...about 300 bucks in professionally made cables...can't beat that in today's market.
Amazing discipline and perseverance. And $300 bucks is a bargain in any day and age, let alone today! We are on day 9+/-, and will be interesting to see whats happened in the last 3-4 days.
Amazing discipline and perseverance. And $300 bucks is a bargain in any day and age, let alone today! We are on day 9+/-, and will be interesting to see whats happened in the last 3-4 days.
Grounding is such a simple concept,but in my system the improvements have been profound. I think it's a win no matter how it's done because it moves the listener closer to the music. I look forward to how it has impacted your system.
Grounding is such a simple concept,but in my system the improvements have been profound. I think it's a win no matter how it's done because it moves the listener closer to the music. I look forward to how it has impacted your system.
Interestingly, I cannot [quite] say since my TA Opus ICs are nearing 100 hours as well, so a bit of a combo here. That said, I have historically noted slightly different outcomes from TA upgrades vs grounding with Tripoint/Entreq.
Relative to 3 weeks ago, we definitely have a combination of a much clearer midrange, a more extended treble which also has greater 'dynamics' both micro and macro. There is more nuance in the upright bass playing of certain bands which is quite cool and quite unexpected...i think this comes from being able to hear 'into' the music better. Certain electric guitar's have more pronounced feedback now which gives them more growl...and I suspect on a more subtle level, there is also more detail as well in the upright bass which I am less able to 'single out'...but which I am hearing in the form of more expressive playing of that upright bass.
I think both cable and grounding have contributed to the improvement in detailing/lower noise floor.
The upper bass is much tighter and more propulsive which IS something i tend to find with TA cables as I have gone up their scale. It could also having something to do with grounding as you have pointed out in your own system, but somehow i have historically associated this with TA but cannot say for sure.
Interestingly, I cannot [quite] say since my TA Opus ICs are nearing 100 hours as well, so a bit of a combo here. That said, I have historically noted slightly different outcomes from TA upgrades vs grounding with Tripoint/Entreq.
Relative to 3 weeks ago, we definitely have a combination of a much clearer midrange, a more extended treble which also has greater 'dynamics' both micro and macro. There is more nuance in the upright bass playing of certain bands which is quite cool and quite unexpected...i think this comes from being able to hear 'into' the music better. Certain electric guitar's have more pronounced feedback now which gives them more growl...and I suspect on a more subtle level, there is also more detail as well in the upright bass which I am less able to 'single out'...but which I am hearing in the form of more expressive playing of that upright bass.
I think both cable and grounding have contributed to the improvement in detailing/lower noise floor.
The upper bass is much tighter and more propulsive which IS something i tend to find with TA cables as I have gone up their scale. It could also having something to do with grounding as you have pointed out in your own system, but somehow i have historically associated this with TA but cannot say for sure.
Lloyd I think you will find out if you continue to increase the grounding pathway,is that the 100 to 200 hour settling period is actually the reset of your current IC's. As the grounding circuit removes more noise the IC's will be a conduit connection between components to transfer a purer audio signal. The more noise that is removed the more tonal richness and clarity will be revealed. I have come to the conclusion as many here have that live music is the only thing to judge by. The only other arbiter is the ability to visualize (no better word) what the microphone would hear and that can only be accomplished by training yourself to listen for the degrees of clarity in that context in your system. In my experience there are many levels of clarity and that is the essence of this puzzle and the solution too.
Lloyd I think you will find out if you continue to increase the grounding pathway,is that the 100 to 200 hour settling period is actually the reset of your current IC's. As the grounding circuit removes more noise the IC's will be a conduit connection between components to transfer a purer audio signal. The more noise that is removed the more tonal richness and clarity will be revealed. I have come to the conclusion as many here have that live music is the only thing to judge by. The only other arbiter is the ability to visualize (no better word) what the microphone would hear and that can only be accomplished by training yourself to listen for the degrees of clarity in that context in your system. In my experience there are many levels of clarity and that is the essence of this puzzle and the solution too.
Miguel from Tripoint is a fun guy , he mentioned to me that this level of sound reproduction is rarely if ever heard at the Axpona and other US shows . Nearing closing time , he unplugged the Tripoint Elite from the system ..... The sound-field collapsed shrinking from its glorious finessed self to one of mortal dimensions . Plug it back in and the boosters lit up , life was good . Normalcy restored . It would have been great , if the Trinity room employed a grounding scheme . In spite of Dietmar's belief , his products from personal experience do respond to "quasi "Grounding .
It's nice to read comments like this....it gives me comfort to know I'm not crazy...
I listened tonight and I can say the system had a pretty nice breakthrough....something I never expected the extreme grounding to have such a wonderful effect. The system is beginning to sound tube or analog like...reminds me of my VAC Renaissance amps. Now that might not sound like such a big deal...but I do miss my tubes. Although 5 SS amplifiers driving 23 drivers with 4500W does have it's good points.
I played 3 different CD's and they all exhibited new qualities in my current system....
First I played the Stanley Black Phase 4 and the one thing that stood out to me was the Left right information was no longer segregated as parts of the music have been. The information was now shared,not equally though,but still had a more balanced perspective. Also the CD almost reminded me of 35mm analog sound that I would hear years ago in movie theaters that used large Altec horns and tube electronics. I always thought when I was a kid that this "movie sound" had a beautiful quality.
Now this really peaked my interest and I wanted to hear what effect this latest grounding would have on my gold disc version of the classic "kind of blue". Right off the bat...similiar to what I heard in the phase 4 recording, KOB had a more homogeneous sound but it also reminded me of my VAC 300B amps...very liquid,a certain degree of magic and a saturation quality that was missing. Now I don't know if it was exactly like my VAC's but the quality rendered got me really excited and I know that in the coming days it will get better.
Lastly I put on Streisand's third album which was recorded at the old church Columbia studio in NYC with I believe a Ampex 351 recorder. I think KOB was recorded on a Ampex 350 and both have distinct sounds. Now the third album sounded like what I hear when I play it through my upgraded Ampex 440 electronics....not quite as liquid and magical but Streisand's voice was rendered pretty close with a analog type glorious mid range quality. This is exciting stuff for me and I can't wait for the next day and the day after that. It's a great time for music lovers.
So I was looking at the size of my extreme grounding circuit and I'm using 7 zero gauge cables,4 two gauge cables and various smaller gauge looms. When I add the 2 last zero gauge cables I estimate that I'll have about 30 pounds of stranded copper in the circuit....woo hoo!
