Are slow-sounding tube amplifiers poorly engineered, or appealing to a Target Market?

caesar · May 22, 2015

Listen to great tube amplification from Atma-sphere or CAT, and they are blazing fast. Listen to an amp like the Woo audio headphone amps as well as some audiophile brands, and they are as slow as molasses.

Is speed an indication of good or bad design?

DaveyF · May 22, 2015

I think loss of information and/or resolution leading to what you call " slow as molasses" is a defect in any amp design, ss or tube.

JackD201 · May 22, 2015

I'm very sure there are examples of both not to mention that some tube amps are only slow when not properly matched to loudspeakers.

Phelonious Ponk · May 23, 2015

Can you describe "slow-sounding?"

Tim

TBone · May 23, 2015

"Slow" and "Fast" amps?

Well, I can control turntable speed, would that remedy an amps speed characteristics?

Kiddin aside ... do you mean "slow" as in tubby undefined/uncontrolled bass which smears lower freq. instrumental timing, and "fast" as tighter more controlled sound (some amps "grip" better than others) with perhaps a sharper/better defined leading edge?

Phelonious Ponk · May 23, 2015

TBone said:
"Slow" and "Fast" amps?

Well, I can control turntable speed, would that remedy an amps speed characteristics?

Kiddin aside ... do you mean "slow" as in tubby undefined/uncontrolled bass which smears lower freq. instrumental timing, and "fast" as tighter more controlled sound (some amps "grip" better than others) with perhaps a sharper/better defined leading edge?

If that's the description, the answer is solid state or very expensive tubes.

Tim

TBone · May 23, 2015

I'm not certain of his description, hence my question. I don't tend to label amps based on speed, although I "think" I understand what others may imply using "slow/fast". And besides; as others have pointed out, amp performance can be speaker dependent.

Al M. · May 23, 2015

Phelonious Ponk said:
If that's the description, the answer is solid state or very expensive tubes.

Tim

No, you don't need expensive tubes, you need an over-sized power supply that is not sagging upon demand. The problem with many power supplies in tube amps is that they simply cannot supply under stress (dynamic peaks etc.) the steady, constant very-high-voltage DC that the tubes need. In many amps the tubes simply underperform because they never are able to operate under optimal conditions. In my system I have external BorderPatrol MB power supplies, monstrous units for the tube power they need to supply (just 15 W/channel):

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17334-My-minimonitor-subwoofer-system

The thread also shows the inside of one of the power supplies (they stand on the floor next to the equipment rack).

Phelonious Ponk · May 23, 2015

Al M. said:
No, you don't need expensive tubes, you need an over-sized power supply that is not sagging upon demand. The problem with many power supplies in tube amps is that they simply cannot supply under stress (dynamic peaks etc.) the steady, constant very-high-voltage DC that the tubes need. In many amps the tubes simply underperform because they never are able to operate under optimal conditions. In my system I have external BorderPatrol MB power supplies, monstrous units for the tube power they need to supply (just 15 W/channel):

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17334-My-minimonitor-subwoofer-system

The thread also shows the inside of one of the power supplies (they stand on the floor next to the equipment rack).

Sorry, I didn't literally mean the valves themselves are expensive, I meant that tube amps with that kind of performance tend to be very expensive.

Tim

andromedaaudio · May 24, 2015

Agreed

JackD201 said:
I'm very sure there are examples of both not to mention that some tube amps are only slow when not properly matched to loudspeakers.

A well proportioned powersuplly certainly has a lot to do with it , you need a large " electric energy buffer" between the wall outlet and the amplyfing section , the Cat will keep playing quite a while as you switch the poweramp off suddenly or pull the plug

, by far the longest time of any amp i owned.
I assume this has all to do with dynamics /speed

82 kg total weight and a large transformersection and capacitator bank , i dont understand why some tube manufacturers would skip on that , well maybe the cost factor

DSC_0214 by andromeda61, on Flickr

c1ferrari · May 24, 2015

andromedaaudio said:
82 kg total weight and a large transformersection and capacitator bank , i dont understand why some tube manufacturers would skip on that , well maybe the cost factor
DSC_0214 by andromeda61, on Flickr

Another approach to amplification, perhaps?
OTL -- astonishing. I'm using Atma-Sphere amplification, pre and amps...remarkable!

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Are slow-sounding tube amplifiers poorly engineered, or appealing to a Target Market?

caesar

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DaveyF

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JackD201

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Phelonious Ponk

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TBone

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