Frank Sinatra and Bob Dylan

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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I am a huge fan of Sinatra. The man, the music, the persona- I like all of it. As many of you know, there was a recent 4 hour HBO special on Frank that was just superb. The live footage and the tracks they chose to play were masterful selections, some of which I had not heard before. The quality of the comments and the people chosen to make those comment were all top drawer. (It didn't hurt that they often featured comments by Terry Teachout, who, IMHO , is the most gifted music critic of our time.) I could go on about the HBO special for some time, but that's not the point I'd like to make here.

Rather, on Tueday night of this past week Bob Dylan appeared on the Dave Letterman show and sang a song form his new album which, shockingly, is, of jazz standards. I recently heard him interviewed and he naturally pays deep homage to Sinatra. Unfortunately, it would have served all of us much better if he didn't attempt to sing the songs that Sinatra made famous. It was an embarrassment. Here's a guy that can' sing well to begin with, making a fool of himself on national TV. C'mon Bob, give us a break. If you want to sing "Masters of War", I'm there for you. But don't make a mockery of some of the most beloved jazz standards of all time by attempting to sing them - EVER. Surely you can satisfy your fans at the end of your long and great career without making an ass of yourself. Anybody else feel this way? Maybe it's me, but if I never see the words Frank Sinatra and Bob Dylan again in the same sentence, it will be way too soon!
 

MRJAZZ

Industry Expert
Jan 20, 2014
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Totally agree. Mr Dylan is WAY past his prime, but even if he were in his prime the music of OLD BLUE EYES, is something best left to someone with the vocal chops to pull it off...........Mr Buble, or Harry Connick perhaps. Dylan's performance on LETTERMAN was pathetic.

Cheers........T
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Feb 23, 2015
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Agree 1000%! I thought the album was disrespectful and the performance was embarrassing.

Right up there with Van Hasbeen and there recent performance on Kimmel as well as the last studio album.
 

GaryProtein

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Jul 25, 2012
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Totally agree. Mr Dylan is WAY past his prime, but even if he were in his prime the music of OLD BLUE EYES, is something best left to someone with the vocal chops to pull it off...........Mr Buble, or Harry Connick perhaps. Dylan's performance on LETTERMAN was pathetic.

Cheers........T

Bob Dylan had a prime????

His songs were excellent. It's too bad he ever sang any of them.

He's not alone in that, though. There are many singer songwriters who have lousy voices that should have had other singers perform their songs.
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Feb 23, 2015
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I cant get over trying to figure out which dimension he is existing in, certainly not this one.
 

GaryProtein

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Jul 25, 2012
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From roughly 1963 to 1966.

__________


Dave Letterman said it: SONGWRITER. Dave didn't call him a singer. Great songs, horrible voice.

His singing voice has always been absolutely unlistenable. I'd rather die in a fire than have to listen to him sing.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Wow, after so many years of thinking I was the only one who just couldn't stand Dylan's voice. His writing is superb, his guitar playing ability...very good, his lyrics...fantastic...his voice:eek:

Only recently have I been able to listen to his stuff...BUT in small doses. That voice...to me it's like broken chalk on the board ( and that's being kind).
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jun 30, 2010
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Haters. :).

There have always been folks who can't stand Bob's voice, and God knows it has its limitations, but I have a different view - I think he's great singer with a very limited instrument. Charlie Parker with a kazoo. A great player can buy a better saxophone. To a great degree, singers are born with the instrument they have to play, and it can only be changed so much. Doesn't mean they can't play; it might mean you don't know how to listen to them.

With that said, I don't need to hear Bob sing jazz standards. Hell, I'm not sure I need to hear anyone else make an album of jazz standards at this point. I've had my fill.

And by the way, the notion that Bob peaked in 1966 is just silly. Nashville Skyline - a great album with some of Dylan's best singing, in the more conventional sense, is from 1969, Blood on the Tracks, considered his best by many, was released in 1975. 1983's Infidels and 85's Empire Burlesque are both terrific albums, 92's Good As I Been to You, 97's Time out of Mind...you don't want to be underestimating Dylan or writing him off. Critics have done that a few times in his career only to see Bob come back strong.

The voice? An acquired taste, perhaps, though I often find people who can't acquire it fawning over disposable pop singers who couldn't carry Bob's water.

Tim
 

Ronm1

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Feb 21, 2011
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Haters. :).

Doesn't mean they can't play; it might mean you don't know how to listen to them.

With that said, I don't need to hear Bob sing jazz standards.

And by the way, the notion that Bob peaked in 1966 is just silly. Nashville Skyline - a great album with some of Dylan's best singing, in the more conventional sense, is from 1969, Blood on the Tracks, considered his best by many, was released in 1975. 1983's Infidels and 85's Empire Burlesque are both terrific albums, 92's Good As I Been to You, 97's Time out of Mind

The voice? An acquired taste, perhaps, though I often find people who can't acquire it fawning over disposable pop singers who couldn't carry Bob's water.

Tim
Completely Agree on those points.
I hear this acquired taste on a number of things and IMHO its all BS. It's like sex, one either likes it or you don't!
 

Dylan

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2013
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I thought Dylan was superb on Letterman. But then again, I've seen him live 3-5 times/ year for the last 20+ years, and some of the best times I've spent with my stereo have been long listening sessions of all Dylan.

I also think his new album of jazz standards is shockingly good. I am also a Sinatra fan, and I've been enjoying the recent SACD reissues.

What amazes me is the venom some people have for him. Very unbecoming. No wonder the guys is somewhat paranoid and remote.

Happy listening!
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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I'm a fan of Sinatra, and his stories ...

"He was wearing a shoebox over his head to keep the sun out of his eyes. Frank's at the wheel of a golf cart. His new wife, actress Mia Farrow, is riding shotgun. Mia is 29 years younger than Frank. The golf cart crashes through the plate glass window of the restaurant and the next thing you know, Frank is piling up chairs and trying to set them on fire with his lighter. He's an unsuccessful arsonist so, screaming and cursing, he leaves. His last words to the shell-shocked staff: 'I built this hotel from a pile of sand and, after I'm through, that's what it will be again'. Frank then flies back on his private jet to his pad in Palm Springs. He makes some calls to some scary figures in organized crime ..."

"... Frank is helped out, whining and spluttering. He flies back to Palm Springs, licks his wounds and then signs a contract to appear at The Sands' biggest rival, Caesar's Palace. And back in Vegas, this weird, beardy, unwashed guy with really long toenails is laughing his head off."


Quoted from Steve Sutherland's article, Hi-Fi News 12.2014 titled Copa Room, Sands. Las Vegas.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
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Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Haters. :).

There have always been folks who can't stand Bob's voice, and God knows it has its limitations, but I have a different view - I think he's great singer with a very limited instrument. Charlie Parker with a kazoo. A great player can buy a better saxophone. To a great degree, singers are born with the instrument they have to play, and it can only be changed so much. Doesn't mean they can't play; it might mean you don't know how to listen to them.

With that said, I don't need to hear Bob sing jazz standards. Hell, I'm not sure I need to hear anyone else make an album of jazz standards at this point. I've had my fill.

And by the way, the notion that Bob peaked in 1966 is just silly. Nashville Skyline - a great album with some of Dylan's best singing, in the more conventional sense, is from 1969, Blood on the Tracks, considered his best by many, was released in 1975. 1983's Infidels and 85's Empire Burlesque are both terrific albums, 92's Good As I Been to You, 97's Time out of Mind...you don't want to be underestimating Dylan or writing him off. Critics have done that a few times in his career only to see Bob come back strong.

The voice? An acquired taste, perhaps, though I often find people who can't acquire it fawning over disposable pop singers who couldn't carry Bob's water.

Tim

Tim, Gary asked a question...Bob Dylan's prime. I simply replied with what I thought was his prime time (beginning of his career with main, some of the very best impact: 63 to 66).
I agree with your entire post; I must have all Bob's albums and 'Blood On The Tracks' (1974 Vinyl) is my favorite. I also have all the ones that were released on SACD, including 'Blood on the Tracks' ...Hybrid multichannel SACD (stereo, and 5.1).

* Voices; there are some we love (Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, ...), others less (Barry Manilow, Michael Jackson, ...).

Me, I'm a huge Bob Dylan's fan; but that's me. ...And as for that video on the previous page; well, that's pretty awful singing, it hurts...but then, Bob is a much older guy now, and his voice has lost some of its luster. ...Just a bit. :D ...It don't change my love for him, and for what he stands, and I know the sounds, the music, the voice I heard in that Letterman's video tune.

Tim, you like Opera?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bob Dylan had a prime????

His songs were excellent. It's too bad he ever sang any of them.

He's not alone in that, though. There are many singer songwriters who have lousy voices that should have had other singers perform their songs.

Anyone remember Paul Williams the song writer who was always on Johnny Carson Tonight Show
 

sbo6

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May 18, 2014
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I'm a big fan of Sinatra also as a singer and performer. As a person - so, so. As for Dylan singing on Letterman, 110% agree. Of all the songs to pick, how about one of his standards?

I think Dylan and a bunch of other songwriters that decided to sing their own songs was one of the negative side effects of the singer/songwriter revolution starting in the 60s. It was great that songwriters could now express themselves in their own songs, but the days of credible qualified singers and talented songwriters are for a good part, over. Rogers and Hart, Porter, Arlen and Sinatra, Crosby, Fitzgerald, not so much anymore...
 

Andre Marc

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Mar 14, 2012
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Check Michael Fremer's review. He absolutely loved the record.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/shadows-night  another-side-bob-dylan

"Dylan sings this with not often heard vulnerability and sincerity. But that’s only a warm up to a version of “Autumn Leaves” that should silence skeptics. Dylan’s version of this seasonal metaphor is alone worth the price of admission and it more than makes up for the album’s sole misstep, a mildly C&W version of “Some Enchanted Evening” that starts side two (on vinyl) with if not a thud, then a mild clunk ."
 

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