Golden Gate DAC arrives.

Legolas · May 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
What differences did you notice in the dac with the caps? How did you try it, replaced and got back the dac each time?

The Duelunds took 4 weeks to settle down, but right from the get go they were obviously smoother and more natural than the V-Caps in before. The V-Caps replaced Audio Note Copper caps (standard fit), which to my ears sounded thick, slow and restricted in frequency range and detail. The only thing I liked about the coppers was the mid-range. With the Duelunds you get better midrange, PLUS wide bandwidth, massive soundstage and deep and powerful bass and sub bass, and detailed and smooth treble. As I said, the best of both worlds IMO, bass and dynamics of the V-Caps and fantastic midrange. They are also 'slightly' warm which helps in a DAC I think. Teflon caps can sound a touch cold.

I have excellent aural memory and had used the coppers for 3 months, the teflons for 8 months, and the Duelunds now for 4 months. I am convinced by the Duelunds. They are not cheap, but they can change the sound to a bigger degree than almost any other tweak or tube rolling I can think of. They can basically transform a DAC or amplifier.

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

Just inserted for the first time the 45 anniversary tubes of Lukasz in my Golden Bate dac to replace the Elrog 300b I was playing with so far.

How much hours do the anniversary tubes need to consider them more or less played in?

First impressions (playing them for less than a hour) are that the anniversary sounds more focussed and powerful than the Elrogs but also less open and less smooth. But of course the former needs (much) more time.

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

Hi Rudolf, systems are showing that either the special 45s is working better or the PX25. The ones where the 45s work, they work much better than the PXs, while in others the 45s sound a bit boring (lacking in dynamics and stage) and the PX25 works much better.

In Christoph’s PX25 easily saw off the 45s. So did at Dctom’s and another friend’s here who uses the same integrated as Bill’s. Bill used PX25 for a while but the 45s worked fine in his, a bit different. I have used 45s in other systems during comparing valves. If they are working well in yours, they will be more dynamic, give more distinct tones on tuttis, and sound less colored than Elrog. Please check on tuttis. They also have a nice decay. If not, they will sound a bit flat and dull.

As to how long it takes, I don’t remember

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

And the anniversary tubes sounds definately more lineair on the Golden Gate than the Elrog 300b valves.

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Hi Rudolf, systems are showing that either the special 45s is working better or the PX25. The ones where the 45s work, they work much better than the PXs, while in others the 45s sound a bit boring (lacking in dynamics and stage) and the PX25 works much better.

In Christoph’s PX25 easily saw off the 45s. So did at Dctom’s and another friend’s here who uses the same integrated as Bill’s. Bill used PX25 for a while but the 45s worked fine in his, a bit different. I have used 45s in other systems during comparing valves. If they are working well in yours, they will be more dynamic, give more distinct tones on tuttis, and sound less colored than Elrog. Please check on tuttis. They also have a nice decay. If not, they will sound a bit flat and dull.

As to how long it takes, I don’t remember

Thanks for your quick reply, Ked, appreciated. I am experiencing no lack of dynamics, on the contrary: the 45 valves sound more dynamic in my LA system than the Elrog tubes. Not sure about staging yet but as mentioned before the 45's are brand new.

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

Audiocrack said:
Thanks for your quick reply, Ked, appreciated. I am experiencing no lack of dynamics, on the contrary: the 45 valves sound more dynamic in my LA system than the Elrog tubes. Not sure about staging yet but as mentioned before the 45's are brand new.

That's good. Is the decay on different instruments better?

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

Not sure if it is better. The LA's are so transparant/revealing that decay with the Kondo amplification has always been spectacular.

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

I stand corrected. The presentation of the 45 valves is less dynamic than the Elrog 300b tubes. The former have also a more distant and more precise presentation than the latter. The 45's sound also less 'fat' than the Elrog's, less exciting if you want. So I can understand why people prefer in certain set ups the more exciting Elrogs.

I suppose I should postpone my final judgement till the 45 tubes have more hours on them.

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

Are you referring to Elrog 300b or 211?

wisnon · Jun 5, 2017

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

Yep, sorry: Elrog 300b.

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

I think it's possible yours is a system where the 45s don't work from your description of not being dynamics, you will then benefit from PX25, unless your gain is adjusted to 242

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

bonzo75 said:
I think it's possible yours is a system where the 45s don't work from your description of not being dynamics, you will then benefit from PX25, unless your gain is adjusted to 242

It is a mixed 'blessing', Ked. I hear things that I prefer to the Elrog 300b valve: more precise and additional refinement. And generally I prefer a soundstage presentation that starts (far) behind the speakers to an upfront presentation. But with the 45 tubes the presentation is sort of laid back, lacking 'exitement'.

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

Audiocrack said:
It is a mixed 'blessing', Ked. I hear things that I prefer to the Elrog 300b valve: more precise and additional refinement. And generally I prefer a soundstage presentation that starts (far) behind the speakers to an upfront presentation. But with the 45 tubes the presentation is sort of laid back, lacking 'exitement'.

The 242 work the most behind, followed by PXs. The Elrog are relatively more upfront, midrangey, and the most one-tone of the valves. The difference on Cello notes between Elrog and PX4 is stark. Every note is more nuanced with the PX4. The KR valves are generally more exciting than other valves. You have to compare different valves AC, and then decide which work best. It is usually either or from 45 or PX25 behind the 242 (when the 242 does work). We did this across many systems and many ears for consistency. At some point I could even post you mine to try, but I know you are reluctant to change out.

Audiocrack · Jun 5, 2017

bonzo75 said:
The 242 work the most behind, followed by PXs. The Elrog are relatively more upfront, midrangey, and the most one-tone of the valves. The difference on Cello notes between Elrog and PX4 is stark. Every note is more nuanced with the PX4. The KR valves are generally more exciting than other valves. You have to compare different valves AC, and then decide which work best. It is usually either or from 45 or PX25 behind the 242 (when the 242 does work). We did this across many systems and many ears for consistency. At some point I could even post you mine to try, but I know you are reluctant to change out.

Ever tried the Takatsuki 300b valves with the Golden Gate dac? I have a pair of these Taks available but I have not tried them yet.

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

Audiocrack said:
Ever tried the Takatsuki 300b valves with the Golden Gate dac? I have a pair of these Taks available but I have not tried them yet.

No please send

. Bill and I will try. Will also get to try EML mesh Px4 soon, and am sure some more special valves will be in the pipeline. The best way to use the Lampi is to find your valve, and match the gain of that valve and Lampi output to your preamp. Kind of like the analog guys always do with cartridge and phono

bonzo75 · Jun 5, 2017

Btw your Tara omega power cable, that day we replaced the cobalt with that and my friend and I were blown away by how good it sounded. He owns it, and we tried it on the Lampi with 242 and Px25. The 45 did not work there, and the 242 and this cable on the Lampi took the system up many notches. Much more than using it on his analog domain integrated.

Audiocrack · Jun 6, 2017

bonzo75 said:
No please send . Bill and I will try. Will also get to try EML mesh Px4 soon, and am sure some more special valves will be in the pipeline. The best way to use the Lampi is to find your valve, and match the gain of that valve and Lampi output to your preamp. Kind of like the analog guys always do with cartridge and phono

Well, maybe I could try the Takatsuki 300B first , although I believe Al was not really happy about the combination with the GG.

Not really ready to invest again in tubes for the GG: tried so far Elrog 300B and anniversary 45 tubes. Have available KR 242 and Tak 300B valves I have not used yet.

Audiocrack · Jun 6, 2017

bonzo75 said:
No please send . Bill and I will try. Will also get to try EML mesh Px4 soon, and am sure some more special valves will be in the pipeline. The best way to use the Lampi is to find your valve, and match the gain of that valve and Lampi output to your preamp. Kind of like the analog guys always do with cartridge and phono

Well, maybe I could try the Takatsuki 300B first , although I believe Al was not really happy about the combination with the GG.

Not really ready to invest again in tubes for the GG: tried so far Elrog 300B and anniversary 45 tubes. Have available KR 242 and Tak 300B valves that I have not used yet.

Audiocrack · Jun 6, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Btw your Tara omega power cable, that day we replaced the cobalt with that and my friend and I were blown away by how good it sounded. He owns it, and we tried it on the Lampi with 242 and Px25. The 45 did not work there, and the 242 and this cable on the Lampi took the system up many notches. Much more than using it on his analog domain integrated.

Yep, this Tara pc is very good indeed. Used it with the Trinity dac before I sold the Trinity combo. However, it was not a killer combo in my view with my Kondo M1000 mk i preamp so I guessed it was not an ideal match with tube units. Surprised to hear it worked well with the GG dac.

Golden Gate DAC arrives.

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