What to look for when buying used pre-recorded R2R titles?

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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When it comes to vinyl I am very familiar with the process of buying used as I know what to look for and the questions I need to ask, should details not be apparent in an ad. R2R is a whole other kettle of fish for me and I need some tips on what to look for.

I am interested in buying some titles recorded at 7.5ips only as I'm limited by the speed of my Pioneer RT-909. It is a 2-track/1/4" machine and can accept 7" & 10.5" reels. The genres I'm interested in are classic rock titles, jazz/blues and classical.

I see a lot of titles that are 4-track tapes. Are those titles off limits for my 2-track machine?
What questions do I ask regarding tape condition?
Do R2R titles have a grading system like vinyl?
Should I be weary if a tape hasn't been played for years or even decades?
What about Sticky-shed Syndrome?

Thanks in advance for any tips you can throw my way!

JV:D
 

c1ferrari

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May 15, 2010
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Hi JV,

I have 2-track, i.e., half-track, machines, also. The track widths and locations for half-track and quarter-track sound heads may be incompatible.
AFAIK, a standardized 'grading system' does not exist for reel tapes.

If you can get photos of the tape media detailing the tape's pack -- how the tape is wound in the reel -- it could be very diagnostic of the tape's physical condition.
I would suggest looking for a very smooth and even tape pack.

SSS is a concern; although, tape baking seems to be a solution, IME.
 

astrotoy

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May 24, 2010
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When it comes to vinyl I am very familiar with the process of buying used as I know what to look for and the questions I need to ask, should details not be apparent in an ad. R2R is a whole other kettle of fish for me and I need some tips on what to look for.

I am interested in buying some titles recorded at 7.5ips only as I'm limited by the speed of my Pioneer RT-909. It is a 2-track/1/4" machine and can accept 7" & 10.5" reels. The genres I'm interested in are classic rock titles, jazz/blues and classical.

I see a lot of titles that are 4-track tapes. Are those titles off limits for my 2-track machine?
What questions do I ask regarding tape condition?
Do R2R titles have a grading system like vinyl?
Should I be weary if a tape hasn't been played for years or even decades?
What about Sticky-shed Syndrome?

Thanks in advance for any tips you can throw my way!

JV:D

JV, I hope you mean you have a 4 track stereo machine. Otherwise, your choices of prerecorded tapes are extremely limited. A 2 track machine will not play 4 track tapes. Some tapes from the early to late '50's were 2 track tapes. I have a few - they were generally pretty expensive (and rare). They only play in one direction, since the two tracks take up the entire width of the tape, and usually are stored tails out - that is you have to rewind the tape before you play it and then the tape is stored without rewinding. That usually means the tape is smoothly wound, the best way. The tapes from that era were all acetate and thus no sticky shed issues. You can easily see an acetate tape because when you hold the reel up to a bright light, the tape is translucent when viewed face on.

Assuming you actually have a track track stereo machine, then most all 7.5ips tapes are playable. The exceptions are the many dolby B encoded tapes (where you will need an outboard dolby B decoder) and the very few dbx II encoded tapes (where you will need an outboard dbx decoder).

I have over 800 prerecorded 7.5ips 4 track stereo tapes. Almost all bought used over the years. The majority were bought in two very large lots, where I paid $2-$6 for each tape (more for one lot than the other.) There were a few with sticky shed, but the price was right to accept those. I also have a fruit dehydrator which usually takes care of the SS for one play - so I could rip the tape to a digital file. Many of the London and Philips dolby B tapes from the late '70's were SS offenders.

As far as sources, Irvington Music irvmusic.com, has the best selection of used old R2R prerecorded tapes. You can see their current list online. Very reliable and they take returns if the tape is bad.

Short of playing a tape, l would agree with Sam that looking for an even wind is probably the best way to judge, but not with great reliability.

The old RCA and Mercury Living Stereo and Living Presence tapes generally have a premium price, not as much as their records on the used market. However, I haven't found their tapes to be worth the premium. The bargains that I have found surprisingly good are Columbia and DGG, much better than their records, in general. Most ubiquitous in my experience are London tape, which range from excellent to just OK.

Larry
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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Larry - Thank you so much for all of that information. The description on my RT-909 says: 4-CHANNEL 2 TRACK STEREO AUTO REVERSE machine. So I should be good to go for most tapes then? I've bookmarked the Irving Music site and will have a look at my leisure a little later.
 

astrotoy

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May 24, 2010
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astrotoy

VIP/Donor
May 24, 2010
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SF Bay Area
Larry - Thank you so much for all of that information. The description on my RT-909 says: 4-CHANNEL 2 TRACK STEREO AUTO REVERSE machine. So I should be good to go for most tapes then? I've bookmarked the Irving Music site and will have a look at my leisure a little later.

Looking good. One good thing is that with a reversing machine, if the tapes are done right, then a piece of sensing foil or whatever Pioneer used to trigger the reverse, means you can play both sides of the reel with taking it off and flipping it over and rethreading. The negative about the Pioneer (and most all consumer and some pro machines of that era) the electronics have the typical transistor sound of the time (think Pioneer receivers from the '70's and '80s. There has been a small cottage industry (I think started by Bottlehead a few years ago) of folks building alternative electronics, both tube and SS, that bypass the playback electronics of the tape recorders. Unfortunately they are typically expensive and used more for the pro or prosumer models which can play the 15ips 2 track tapes.

Larry
 

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
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Whitby Ontario Canada
Larry - Thank you so much for all of that information. The description on my RT-909 says: 4-CHANNEL 2 TRACK STEREO AUTO REVERSE machine. So I should be good to go for most tapes then? I've bookmarked the Irving Music site and will have a look at my leisure a little later.

Hi John
4 channel is not the same of 4 track, the head is only 2 track but the output is 4 channel two in front and two in rear same as the 4 channel LP, you can play a 4 track tape to see how it works ? if it doesn't than you need to change head to a 4 track otherwise all you can play the 2 track tape
best
tony ma
 

Nevillekapadia

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I keep learning more and more each time I read the threads on WBF, thanks to you'll and other members.
Neville
 

astrotoy

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May 24, 2010
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SF Bay Area
Hi John
4 channel is not the same of 4 track, the head is only 2 track but the output is 4 channel two in front and two in rear same as the 4 channel LP, you can play a 4 track tape to see how it works ? if it doesn't than you need to change head to a 4 track otherwise all you can play the 2 track tape
best
tony ma

Tony, I think with stereo autoreverse, it has to be 4 track. Easy enough to check out with a 4 track stereo tape. Larry
 

Fred

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2010
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Covington, LA
I always believed the RT-909 was a 4-track machine. I'm confused by John's description of 4-Channel, 2-track. Why would auto-reverse be a feature of this deck if it is in fact a 2-track machine?
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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Calgary, AB
Sorry folks....I had a dyslexic moment when writing down the description indicated on my unit. It is as follows:

4-track 2-channel stereo auto reverse.


:eek:
 

Joe Galbraith

Senior Member/Sponsor
Apr 22, 2010
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www.arsetmusica.com
I recently came into a small lot (20-30) Mercury and RCA 7.5 ips reels, including the Reiner Lt. Kiji!. They had been living in the home of a very heavy smoker for almost 50 years. The boxes were brown with nicotine and the tapes had the dreaded shedding going on.

I removed the reels from the boxes, attached new leader front and back, then baked the tapes at 200 degrees between two heavy panes of glass. I cleaned and disinfected the boxes in and out. The tapes are all quite playable. The Lt. Kiji at 7.5 ips sounds, after 50 years, almost as good as my new 200g Analogue Productions reissue of the same recording.
 

Fred

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2010
296
5
365
Covington, LA
Sorry folks....I had a dyslexic moment when writing down the description indicated on my unit. It is as follows:

4-track 2-channel stereo auto reverse.


:eek:

You sure as heck did! But I'm relieved to have that straightened out. You had me going there for a minute though. LOL.

So, for the record. 4-track, 2-channel.
 

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