Nat Audio - giant killers?

bonzo75

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Hi bonzo, Thank you for your comment. Can you clarify your statement a bit? Magnetic is not hybrid anymore? According to NAT website, it's still mentioned as hybrid. What is the sweet spot according to Dejan - the Magnetic preamp?

Yes Dejan said the Magnetic pre was the sweet spot. I had this conversation with him a couple of years ago. Best to call/email and check with him if it is a hybrid or not.
 

bonzo75

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Btw, what are you looking for a preamp for - to drive a SET based system, a PP amplifier, or an SS amp? What are your speakers?
 

Scatterbrain99

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I've a open baffle speaker - Pure Audio Project Trio15 Voxativ. I'm going to upgrade to Horn1 soon. My amplifier is PS Audio BHK 250. I'm wondering what kind of preamp would be a good fit for this, specifically for a open baffle speaker.
 

Ron Resnick

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I searched "Einstein" and I rediscovered this thread. I just heard the Einstein Silver Bullet OTL Mk. IIs in a stunning-sounding system, some elements of which have left me dumbfounded, and two things I absolutely, positively, without any doubt did not hear from the Einsteins were "bloat" or "roll-off."
 

bonzo75

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I searched "Einstein" and I rediscovered this thread. I just heard the Einstein Silver Bullet OTLs in a stunning-sounding system, some elements of which have left me dumbfounded, and two things I absolutely, positively, without any doubt did not hear from the Einsteins were "bloat" or "roll-off."

What did you compare with?
 

Ron Resnick

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There was no comparison. Danny has several Einstein amplifiers.
 

bonzo75

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There was no comparison. Danny has several Einstein amplifiers.

Ok, I compared to BerninG, which to me is better. Please check if Danny rolled the stock valves, as I heard with stock.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Ok, I compared to BerninG, which to me is better. Please check if Danny rolled the stock valves, as I heard with stock.

Jazdoc had Einstein's for a long time which I've heard many times; pretty good. but I prefer his new Found-Music Blade mono tube amps by a good margin. these are 28-30 watt amps, but seem much more powerful in his intimate room. not exactly sure which Einstein amps he had (he never sells stuff so he might still have them).

I did have the big 211/845 Bernings in my large room a year or two ago ($75k), and then also had the Blades ($25k) in my system briefly too. the 2x or 3x as powerful Berning was a little better. but in a smaller room they might be similar.
 

Ron Resnick

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Mike, didn't you have Atma-Sphere amps at one time? If so, is there anything you can tell us about 211/845 Bernings versus the Atma-Spheres?

Why did you not keep the 211/845 Bernings?
 

Ron Resnick

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I know the switching power supply of the Bernings is supposed to control the bass well, but that is not a consideration for me since the external amplifiers drive only the ribbon panels. Since the bass towers are self-powered having a switching power supply in the picture makes me nervous.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, didn't you have Atma-Sphere amps at one time? If so, is there anything you can tell us about 211/845 Bernings versus the Atma-Spheres?

it was a long time ago, 2001. I had the big Atma MA2 mono's in my room for 2 weeks, prior to falling in love with the Tenor OTL's. so relevance of that experience with that generation of the MA2's to the current 211/845 Berning would be a stretch.

OTOH I hear the Atma-sphere's at most audio shows so I do have that on-going experience. and I do recommend the various Atma-sphere amps wholeheartedly as a good value and great sounding amplifier. it has it's own sonic presentation, not so tubey and more neutral and linear at frequency extremes than your typical tube amplifier. I would not call their presentation 'lean' in an objective sense; but 'leaner' and slightly 'less wet/liquid' than the typical tube amp.

and Ralph's customer support is 2nd to none.

I suppose I would say that the Berning 211/845 is a more sophisticated, liquid, refined, and holographic in it's sound than the big Atma's, and has more meat on the bones, but it's much more limited as to speakers it can really control. the MA2 Atma can work in large rooms and real world speakers, whereas the big Bernings are more a super great amp for horns or close to 100db efficient speakers. it did seem to work well on my 97db, 7 ohm MM7's too, until directly compared to my dart monos. and the big Berning is almost twice as costly as the Atma MA2's. note I have no experience with other, more powerful, Berning amplifiers.....which are good matches for harder loads.

the perfect pairing for the 211/845 Berning is the Avantgarde Trio's; a match which Ricky Brown, the Berning guy, strongly recommends.

Why did you not keep the 211/845 Bernings?

I never owned the Bernings; or even had intent. Ricky Brown offered to bring these beautiful amplifiers to my room for me to hear with no obligation or request on my part; so who was I to refuse? he was great; I had them in my room over 2 days and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. I think Ricky wanted to know how his amps would work in my system. and they worked great. how many large scale/truly full range systems can even consider a modestly powered amp like this one; the MM7's offer many amplifier possibilities other mega/uber speaker systems can only dream about.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Thank you, Mike. Yes -- that is what I want: the crystalline transparency of OTL with meat on the bones -- and at least 150 watts into 6 ohms!

So who makes the "meatiest" sounding OTL???
 
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morricab

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Thank you, Mike. Yes -- that is what I want: the crystalline transparency of OTL with meat on the bones -- and at least 150 watts into 6 ohms!

So who makes the "meatiest" sounding OTL???

Joule Electra is the meatiest sounding I have heard. The "rite of passage" OTL would do it.
 

bonzo75

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I know the switching power supply of the Bernings is supposed to control the bass well, but that is not a consideration for me since the external amplifiers drive only the ribbon panels. Since the bass towers are self-powered having a switching power supply in the picture makes me nervous.

Berning were better than Einstein on every parameter, not just bass. Berning strength is highs. Depending on the speaker they can be off on the mid bass. And are not good for driving below 4 ohm.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Joule Electra is the meatiest sounding I have heard. The "rite of passage" OTL would do it.

You may very well be correct! Thank you!

I think Joule Electra is out of business. Where can I find a pair of these amplifiers?
 

Sablon Audio

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Keep an eye out here Ron as this site scours a couple of hundred sources globally but no Rites offered for quite some time

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Joule+electra

Interesting tube the 6C33 but would recommend replacing periodically on a precautionary basis. They have several tiny pins which can lead to micro-arcing due to loose fit in sockets. I have had a couple of 6c33 amps and having a tube ‘run away’, glowing cherry red at @300 centrigrade was pretty concerning with young children around.
 

Ron Resnick

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Thank you!
 

spiritofmusic

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Ron, why do you want to even consider anything other than the Magmas?
It’s a tried and tested design, totally stellar, conservatively rated at 170W, all Class A, overbuilt and overspecced, your hero AJ Conti was a massive fan of them, having them in his system, and you can get them factory direct for an amazing price, probably no more than $20-25k w US taxes/carriage from Europe.
You’re determined to run SETs in your Pendragon ribbons, yes? Surely then, the Magmas need to be far and away top of your list.
 

bonzo75

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Ron, why do you want to even consider anything other than the Magmas?
It’s a tried and tested design, totally stellar, conservatively rated at 170W, all Class A, overbuilt and overspecced, your hero AJ Conti was a massive fan of it having them in his system, and you can get them factory direct for an amazing price, probably no more than $20-25k w US taxes/carriage from Europe.
You’re determined to run SETs in your Pendragon ribbons, yes? Surely then, the Magmas need to be far and away top of your list.

It's not like AJ compared NAT with other SETs and OTLs. Ron should consider OTLs and other SETs and SS and decide. If SETs do indeed work, then 80 or 170w might be an irrelevant point. If they do not work, 80 or 1170 might be irrelevant too
 

spiritofmusic

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Oh, I’m sure he will do. But I think he knows how magical they’re likely to be. Maybe you can fill him in on your short trial that you ran in your apartment. I got the impression you won’t totally put under their spell.
 

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