Elrog 845's - are they flaky, or am I just plain unlucky?

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Hi guys, if anyone has experience maybe they can help me. I'm running Audion Black Shadow SET monos, and the Elrog 845's from Germany are a revelation wrt the rather bland stock Chinese Shuguang A's. I gather they are totally hand made and as such there are variations from pair to pair.
Well I'm struggling - I just LOVE the sound, tactile and tone dense w/exquisite bass, but they keep failing on me. Apparent as low level hum that continues to build, so much so that my amp tech has measured a 100Hz hum that is resonating my 101dB/m eff Zu spkrs. I'm on my second replacement pair in 8 months, due to ask for yet another pair.
So, am I unlucky or are they flaky, and as such is this the bane of anyone going down the bespoke 845 route? I gather KR 845's have a brutal reputation, and Psvane WE Replica 845's are naturally noisy.
Other choices incl the Pvsane T/2's and T/2 Mk2's, and Shuguang b and C (Iron base). That's it I believe for quality 845 tubes.
 
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flyer

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I know of a brand that has a very nice mono amps with 845 tube. They originally announced it to come with and be based upon the Elrog 845 tubes which were supposed to be a big revelation... so they did sonically as you hint yourself. BUT, due to the fact that the tubes had big reliability problems they stopped selling those mono amps with the Elrog and went to the Shuguang 845 tube which played wonderfully. The latter tube is the one that was mounted when I evaluated the amps.

Unfortunately, they didn't have enough power for realistic levels of more complex classical music because I was astonished by their sound and not just the first 5 minutes!
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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I know of a brand that has a very nice mono amps with 845 tube. They originally announced it to come with and be based upon the Elrog 845 tubes which were supposed to be a big revelation... so they did sonically as you hint yourself. BUT, due to the fact that the tubes had big reliability problems they stopped selling those mono amps with the Elrog and went to the Shuguang 845 tube which played wonderfully. The latter tube is the one that was mounted when I evaluated the amps.

Unfortunately, they didn't have enough power for realistic levels of more complex classical music because I was astonished by their sound and not just the first 5 minutes!

Why not nust mention the brand name that dropped Elrog: it was Absolare.
 

flyer

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No, it wasn't that brand I was referring to.

The reason why I don't mention the brand is because I don't know if I am allowed to share the info that was shared with me during an informal conversation. Anyway, it is not a brand as well known as Absolare.
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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No, it wasn't that brand I was referring to.

The reason why I don't mention the brand is because I don't know if I am allowed to share the info that was shared with me during an informal conversation. Anyway, it is not a brand as well known as Absolare.

Absolare stopped using Elrog 845 tubes because of reliability issues, but apparently they were not the only one if I understand you correctly. Have been thinking about Elrog tubes for my Zanden amps, but in the end I did not dare to make the Elrog jump. Hopefully the current Elrog tubes (including 300b tubes) are (more) reliable, but that is something I do not know
 

spiritofmusic

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Well, I've moved to Nat Audio SE2SE mono blocks using NOS 1948 GE 211s, so my Elrog issues are a thing of the past. Still going to attempt to get another pair since I may use my Audions for back-up/AV duties.
But if it came to recommending Elrog, I'd have to sadly decline, and suggest Shuguang 845Bs instead.
 

Audiocrack

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Well, I've moved to Nat Audio SE2SE mono blocks using NOS 1948 GE 211s, so my Elrog issues are a thing of the past. Still going to attempt to get another pair since I may use my Audions for back-up/AV duties.
But if it came to recommending Elrog, I'd have to sadly decline, and suggest Shuguang 845Bs instead.

Spirit, are you actually saying that the current production Elrog 845 tubes are (also) not reliable?
 

spiritofmusic

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That's exactly what I'm saying. 8 months ago I bought my first pair of Elrog 845s for the not inconsiderable sum of Euros 1300. A dramatic impvt in SQ over my stock Shuguang As. Everything better - texture, shimmer and grip etc etc. 13 wks later, a kind of rising harmonic tone appears, to the point that one of my Zu full range drivers vibrates sympathetically! Or should that be "unsympathetically" (certainly my mood at this time).
The distributor in Germany, Tube Amp Doctor, were great in promptly sorting me out another pair. But 13 wks later again, the same issue has arisen, just not quite to the same impossible extent. However the level of noise is still unacceptable.
In the meantime, I sent my Audions in for general servicing, and the engineer reports a 100Hz tone seems to be generated by one faulty tube. Re biasing my monos for these tubes has helped a little, but the issue is lurking not fully solved, and I'm waiting to get them home to do some proper listening.
The Audions not my main amp anymore, but I'm going to insist on a 3rd pair, since i still plan to make use of them, whether for AV duties or just a back-up amp. If no go re reliability on these, then a refund or switch to Shuguang Bs is in order.

So, I keep hearing reliability issues have been sorted, but my experience would appear to contradict this. A shame, they are stellar tubes from a SQ pov.
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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That's exactly what I'm saying. 8 months ago I bought my first pair of Elrog 845s for the not inconsiderable sum of Euros 1300. A dramatic impvt in SQ over my stock Shuguang As. Everything better - texture, shimmer and grip etc etc. 13 wks later, a kind of rising harmonic tone appears, to the point that one of my Zu full range drivers vibrates sympathetically! Or should that be "unsympathetically" (certainly my mood at this time).
The distributor in Germany, Tube Amp Doctor, were great in promptly sorting me out another pair. But 13 wks later again, the same issue has arisen, just not quite to the same impossible extent. However the level of noise is still unacceptable.
In the meantime, I sent my Audions in for general servicing, and the engineer reports a 100Hz tone seems to be generated by one faulty tube. Re biasing my monos for these tubes has helped a little, but the issue is lurking not fully solved, and I'm waiting to get them home to do some proper listening.
The Audions not my main amp anymore, but I'm going to insist on a 3rd pair, since i still plan to make use of them, whether for AV duties or just a back-up amp. If no go re reliability on these, then a refund or switch to Shuguang Bs is in order.

So, I keep hearing reliability issues have been sorted, but my experience would appear to contradict this. A shame, they are stellar tubes from a SQ pov.

Ok, clear. have you heard anything about the (reliability of the) Elrog 300b tubes? Might be an interesting tube for my Kondo Gakuoh amps but I need 2x2 for each pair and as with the 845 tubes I have not dared to try them because I am afraid that they might damage the amps (as apparently happened with Absolare amps) or maybe even the speakers.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Can't help on that, sorry. Not aware of the Elrogs causing any damage. Not to equipment at any rate, just to my peace of mind :mad:!
Out of darkness comes light, if that's not too pretentious - the frustration w/Elrogs and my Audions has led me directly to my buying of the Nat Audio SET amps w/NOS '48 GE 211s, and I'm getting performance up there w/the 5x pricier Koda amps I auditioned last year.
Saying this is a result is a gross understatement!
 

alexz

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Jan 11, 2012
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Toronto, Ontario
Ok, clear. have you heard anything about the (reliability of the) Elrog 300b tubes? Might be an interesting tube for my Kondo Gakuoh amps but I need 2x2 for each pair and as with the 845 tubes I have not dared to try them because I am afraid that they might damage the amps (as apparently happened with Absolare amps) or maybe even the speakers.

ER300B ?
I bought a pair from True Audiophile in January. One of the tubes was hugely non-linear, it has somewere between +20 to+30dB more distortion then anything else: we300b (1999), Emission Labs, 2nd ER300b.
True Audiophile folks replaced this pair. Next pair I got in Match. About 4 month later one of the tubes failed right in a middle of listening: tube just turned into a diode.
By that time True Audiophile stopped distributing Erlog tubes and recommended me to ship directly to the factory in Germany. I did. Later I was told that Elrog refuses to replace tubes and when Gary was taking to Elrog, owner hung up the phone.
That is about about quality and service.
 
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Audiocrack

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ER300B ?
I bought a pair from True Audiophile in January. One of the tubes was hugely non-linear, it has somewere between +20 to+30dB more distortion then anything else: we300b (1999), Emission Labs, 2nd ER300b.
True Audiophile folks replaced this pair. Next pair I got in Match. About 4 month later one of the tubes failed right in a middle of listening: tube just turned into a diode.
By that time True Audiophile stopped distributing Erlog tubes and recommended me to ship directly to the factory in Germany. I did. Later I was told that Elrog refuses to replace tubes and when Gary was taking to Elrog, owner hung up the phone.
That is about about quality and service.

I am sorry to hear this. This is really bad. So I suppose the message is: stay away from Elrog tubes because they are still not reliable.
 

alexz

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2012
18
2
908
Toronto, Ontario
I am sorry to hear this. This is really bad. So I suppose the message is: stay away from Elrog tubes because they are still not reliable.

I must admit that ER300B are very very nice sounding tubes.
The issues are: they are not exactly 300B and in a most amplifiers designed for WE300B specs. they may not run in the optimal oper. parameters.
The inital runs of the tubes have some bugs ( as expected from early production, not sure what is with the current runs). That is combined with the short term warranty and "strange" behavior of the manufacture.
 

Stump

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Jul 15, 2012
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What is the latest feedback on the Elrog 845s? Had a chat with the Australia importer at a hifi show .He explained some of the early faults were from tube rolling before the tubes cooled down.They since made them bigger to keep cooler.Although that does not explain the sound issues mentioned ,I spoke to X2 users that have been running them for 18 month without issues.
Stump
 

ferrox

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Jun 16, 2016
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Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
That's exactly what I'm saying. 8 months ago I bought my first pair of Elrog 845s for the not inconsiderable sum of Euros 1300. A dramatic impvt in SQ over my stock Shuguang As. Everything better - texture, shimmer and grip etc etc. 13 wks later, a kind of rising harmonic tone appears, to the point that one of my Zu full range drivers vibrates sympathetically! Or should that be "unsympathetically" (certainly my mood at this time).
The distributor in Germany, Tube Amp Doctor, were great in promptly sorting me out another pair. But 13 wks later again, the same issue has arisen, just not quite to the same impossible extent. However the level of noise is still unacceptable.
In the meantime, I sent my Audions in for general servicing, and the engineer reports a 100Hz tone seems to be generated by one faulty tube. Re biasing my monos for these tubes has helped a little, but the issue is lurking not fully solved, and I'm waiting to get them home to do some proper listening.
The Audions not my main amp anymore, but I'm going to insist on a 3rd pair, since i still plan to make use of them, whether for AV duties or just a back-up amp. If no go re reliability on these, then a refund or switch to Shuguang Bs is in order.

So, I keep hearing reliability issues have been sorted, but my experience would appear to contradict this. A shame, they are stellar tubes from a SQ pov.

This is the latest news on Elrog tubes: http://vinylsavor.blogspot.co.id/2016/08/the-future-of-elrog-tubes.html
 

mallen123

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2018
33
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No, it wasn't that brand I was referring to.

The reason why I don't mention the brand is because I don't know if I am allowed to share the info that was shared with me during an informal conversation. Anyway, it is not a brand as well known as Absolare.

I believe the brand and amp being referred to here is the Nagra VPA. In researching them before purchase last year I read about this. I also have to say I've had issues with Psvanne WE 845s starting to develop hum after 2 to 3 mths.
 

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