Best way to *significantly* alter sound to taste: change/add amp, preamp or DAC?

majnun70

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Jan 9, 2015
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I love my current system; I want to change my current system. While fortunate as I am to have my current system in a dedicated listening room, I don't have the luxury of having a second room/system when I want a change of pace or just something different for a period. My preamp-less system is comprised of a CAPS server, Bricasti M1 (BADA RS on order), Ayre MXR (pre-Twenty) and Wilson Sophia 2 in a 10x18 treated room at moderate to moderately-loud volume. I'm intentionally leaving out cabling as 1) I'm not a believer (I know, aghast!), and 2) even believers would (probably) concede that it wouldn't make the kind of change I'm looking for.

My current system is neutral, detailed, transparent and perhaps ever-so-slightly lean with a believable soundstage and concise imaging. This is very much what I want most of the time, but on occasion I want something on the opposite end of the sonic scale. So what do I want to change? Simply put, I'd like an occasional diet of SET-like presentation (huge, 3D soundstage with some midrange bloom and overall natural presentation). While I'm not necessarily seeking the syrupy sound that Cary used to be known for, I also don't want a hybrid that purports to provide a middle-ground between SET and traditional solid state (which would be great if I could only have one system); I want what SET is best at providing and will accept its traditional disadvantages (to a point, of course).

Just to be clear, I want to keep my current gear (except for the Bricasti which will eventually be replaced by BADA RS) and am seeking assistance on how to complement/rotate my system (in the same room) in order to get the secondary sound I seek. To that end, I think need to either add a second amp (presumably tube) or second DAC (presumably tube), or a preamp (presumably tube). At this point, I am looking to pursue only one of these options.

1) The obvious problem when adding a second amp is that there aren't many SET (or SET-like) amps that would technically mate well with Sophia 2 (off the top of my head, I believe its sensitivity is 89db and has impedance dips to 2ohm on some parts of the spectrum). Wilson specifies the lower limit of matching amps at 12 watts, but I would feel more comfortable with at least 20 watts, which pretty much takes out most DHT-based amps. There do appear to be some 845/211-based amps that exceed 20 watts, but I get the impression that many of these amps are blurring the line between SET and solid state (not to mention their excessive weight; anything above 80-90 pounds is a problem, but not a complete deal-breaker.) I would also be open to some EL34-based amps, perhaps something as simple as a PrimaLuna amp. But with everything else remaining the same, I guess I don't know if changing the amp alone (given the limited pool of matching amps) would provide the sound I'm seeking.

2) I could add a tube DAC, perhaps something like a Lampi Big7 with its tube-rolling capabilities, but I'm not sure if it alone can provide the sound I'm seeking.

3) I could add a tube preamp, but again, I'm not sure if it alone can provide the sound I'm seeking.

What do you think? In my system, would changing any one (and only one) of these parts give me what I want? My budget is under $10k.
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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My knee jerk reaction is to go with a Lampizator. That way you could have both DACs go into your pre and all you'd need to swap out is a single cable from your transport or server. :)
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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My knee jerk reaction is to go with a Lampizator. That way you could have both DACs go into your pre and all you'd need to swap out is a single cable from your transport or server. :)

Lampi 7 rocks. I have a Jadis JPL with Telefunken pre, and was demoing Jadis XA 100 monos, and I found the Lampi going into the Jadis sounded cleaner and better. Two guys visiting me observed the same. I also found that changing tubes was influencing the sound much more than speaker cables. You need to add one good power cord on your Lampi
 

GaryProtein

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Jul 25, 2012
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Another option allowing you to alter sound to your taste is The Millennia NSEQ4 parametric equalizer, which runs in Class A and is fully differential balanced. This is also under budget at about $4500.

You can use it in a processor or tape loop and completely remove it from the signal path when not in use.

http://www.mil-media.com/nseq-4.html
http://www.mil-media.com/clients.html
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
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Simply put, I'd like an occasional diet of SET-like presentation (huge, 3D soundstage with some midrange bloom and overall natural presentation).

That's an interesting but ambiguous way to describe your wishes. Are there other times that you don't want an "SET like presentation" and if so, what "presentation" are you looking for?

Seems like you are searching for your "personal" bias regarding what you desire from your system as we all do. The difficulty with your request is that you will likely find (assuming you change something) a new "flavor" that you like sometimes and sometimes will not like.

I would suggest you look into cabling despite your reluctance to do so. The "Cable Company" aka Fatwyre has a enormous inventory of choices you can audition.

Be careful to not become entrapped in the costly and frustrating "component of the month" strategy. A respected forum member is currently going through this exercise with a very expensive limited edition speaker.

I wish him and you the best of luck. ;)

Gary's recommendation may be the best way to get you where you want to be.
 

Tam Lin

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Mar 20, 2011
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Why don't you assemble a second system in your room? Get a budget SET amp and a pair of full range, single-driver speakers. I know the latter is an oxymoron, but such a system would give you a totally different perspective. The mid-range coherence and imaging is out of this world.
 

majnun70

New Member
Jan 9, 2015
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My knee jerk reaction is to go with a Lampizator. That way you could have both DACs go into your pre and all you'd need to swap out is a single cable from your transport or server. :)

Lampi 7 rocks. I have a Jadis JPL with Telefunken pre, and was demoing Jadis XA 100 monos, and I found the Lampi going into the Jadis sounded cleaner and better. Two guys visiting me observed the same. I also found that changing tubes was influencing the sound much more than speaker cables. You need to add one good power cord on your Lampi

So you guys think adding a Lampi Big7 without changing anything else would bring the SET-like sound I'm looking for?
 

majnun70

New Member
Jan 9, 2015
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That's an interesting but ambiguous way to describe your wishes. Are there other times that you don't want an "SET like presentation" and if so, what "presentation" are you looking for?

Seems like you are searching for your "personal" bias regarding what you desire from your system as we all do. The difficulty with your request is that you will likely find (assuming you change something) a new "flavor" that you like sometimes and sometimes will not like.

I would suggest you look into cabling despite your reluctance to do so. The "Cable Company" aka Fatwyre has a enormous inventory of choices you can audition.

Be careful to not become entrapped in the costly and frustrating "component of the month" strategy. A respected forum member is currently going through this exercise with a very expensive limited edition speaker.

I wish him and you the best of luck. ;)

Gary's recommendation may be the best way to get you where you want to be.

The way I described my existing system is pretty accurate and reflective of what I want most of the time, namely detail, resolution and transparency. This won't change. As for seeking an occasional change-of-pace system, I wouldn't consider it a victim of the component of the month approach as SET is, well, the opposite of that.
 

majnun70

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Jan 9, 2015
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Why don't you assemble a second system in your room? Get a budget SET amp and a pair of full range, single-driver speakers. I know the latter is an oxymoron, but such a system would give you a totally different perspective. The mid-range coherence and imaging is out of this world.

I would love to do that, but given my narrow room, I don't think I can properly place a second pair of speakers, unless I can find appropriate speakers that can be placed close to the back wall (the Sophias are about 6-7 feet out).
 

bonzo75

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So you guys think adding a Lampi Big7 without changing anything else would bring the SET-like sound I'm looking for?

I have heard the Wilsons sound very boring (to my tastes) with Vivaldi and Dartzeel, while they sounded much nicer with an all out Audio Research gear. That was high end gear. You seem to find the Ayre and lack of SET/valves boring. So try the Lampi 7. Rolling tubes can bring more change than rolling cables and at a lower cost.

But then you could just add a SET. The NAT audio does 60w and 120w SET monoblocks, all valve. You can buy them directly from the manufacturer in Serbia. The 120w one was rated as the best power amp by a German magazine and won't cost that much. If you think 120w per channel SETs can drive your Sophias, try them out. Can't make out which country you are located in.

Adding the Lampi 7 is worth it IMO anyway. With HQplayer on the Caps win12 AO, playing DSD through the Lampi 7 into NAT audios, your Sophias will sound very different from what they do now.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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So you guys think adding a Lampi Big7 without changing anything else would bring the SET-like sound I'm looking for?

To the extent of harmonic attributes of the respective triodes, yes. As far as SET amp interactions with needy loudspeakers go, no.
 

Enoch Root

Well-Known Member
Oct 8, 2014
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Atma-Sphere amps deliver the "you-are-there" quality of SETs at greater levels of power, without sacrificing clarity/transparency.
With Wilson speakers, it would be necessary to also use Zero Transformers (from the Anti Cable guy) for proper impedance matching.

You may also wish to re-consider your stance on cabling; it's worth experimentation, though it may not directly address your initial question.

Good luck!
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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If you have a Bricasti and a Bada RS then as interesting that the Lampi Big 7 is it might be dac choice overkill especially given you have no preamp ATM where tubes can really come into their own and set the stage for great musical architecture. Since you have speakers that might make SET amps challenged then maybe going a DHT preamp would give you the biggest move towards an optional SET experience and still the choice to go direct whenever you want.

The Coincident Statement LS with its 101 triodes is well under your 10k budget and might be just the ticket.
 

MrAcoustat

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Jun 5, 2012
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No serious audiophile will admit having an equalizer in his system :) BUT that is exactly what whe do with the cables i for one will admit that all my cables are chosen for the way they sound in MY system Gabriel Gold ic,s & speaker cables Grant Fidelity PC-1.5 power cords ( 4 ) to be replaced soon with Audio Sensibility Statement.

PS: For the money the Grant Fidelity PC-1.5 power cord is decent, yes the Audio Sensibility Statement is a better power cord BUT let's nor forget it is more than three times the price.
 

MrAcoustat

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Jun 5, 2012
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Which power cords and cables have a "SET" sound

Are you telling us that a set sound is not affected by a power cord change ?????
 

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