URGENT: Anyone with experience setting up Koetsu Stone Body on a Graham Phantom Supre

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Well, using the 10" Red jig isn't an option since I don't have it. :)

I don't understand why the arm did not include the correct alignment tools. Perhaps I don't understand the situation. I'd contact Graham, describe the wand, model of arm, the arm length and order the correct tools. This whole experience sounds unfortunate, but it should be easily corrected, given some patience. You have a great combination of gear and it should sound excellent once it is all correctly set up.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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Order one.

That's genius, but not really an option at this point. I only have until Monday to decide if I'm keeping the cartridge.

The Mint protractor custom built should work unless it was built for the other headshell. We're going to rebuild the table today and see if we missed anything.
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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It just dawned on me. How did your previous cartridge perform? If there was no problem, the Coral itself may be out of spec in some way.
 

number95

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2014
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what length Graham arm ? Make sure you have the right jig for each arm length. The Blue jig is for 9", Red for 10" and Silver for !2".

My Elite's included 9 inch jig is also silver but it is for 9 inch. At the alignment glass there is also a small font of 9 (below right corner). Best to ask Bob as he may be changing the colors for different models. My b-44 has blue jig again for 9 inch.

As you also suggested, last night I realigned my Zyx Uni Prem this time with Graham jig. Compared to both mint lp and Dr Feickert, Bob's own alignment tool certainly is a winner. Have not looked back after realigning...
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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Order one.

We got it dialed in. Turns out that the pivot to spindle distance we were using was wrong. Once we had the correct measurements, it was pretty easy using the SMARTractor.

My setup guy knows his stuff. He's been in the industry a long time and this is pretty much all he does. We just had some incorrect info that the Graham distributor was able to clear up.

After fine-tuning for another 5 hours, we're pretty happy with the sound. The cart still needs to break in. There's been some nice audible gains in the last few hours. I'm just now sitting down to give it some serious listening.

Fingers crossed that it makes magic across a lot of source material. My only initial complaint is that it seems to lack a little high end shimmer/sparkle that I would expect out of a cart at this level. Hopefully that opens up with some more listening time.
 

audioarcher

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May 6, 2012
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We got it dialed in. Turns out that the pivot to spindle distance we were using was wrong. Once we had the correct measurements, it was pretty easy using the SMARTractor.

My setup guy knows his stuff. He's been in the industry a long time and this is pretty much all he does. We just had some incorrect info that the Graham distributor was able to clear up.

After fine-tuning for another 5 hours, we're pretty happy with the sound. The cart still needs to break in. There's been some nice audible gains in the last few hours. I'm just now sitting down to give it some serious listening.

Fingers crossed that it makes magic across a lot of source material. My only initial complaint is that it seems to lack a little high end shimmer/sparkle that I would expect out of a cart at this level. Hopefully that opens up with some more listening time.

Glad you got it figured out. If your phono stage has adjustable loading, try raising it a little. It may help open up the sound.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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The Coralstone sounded great from the get go. Obviously better with 50 or more hours. If you aligned the 10" wand with the blue jig, that will definitely be an issue. It is not your cart. Something is going on with the alignment. Bottom line, use a 10" (Red) jig and use the arm wand with the graham spindle cup to get your pivot to spindle distance right...bag the mint and feikert for this arm.

How noisy is/was your Corralstone?

On the quiet passaged during music or between songs, I'm hearing quite a bit of noise. Also, seems like I'm hearing a lot of pops & ticks. A lot more than my Lyra Delos was picking up for sure.

I'm thinking this Blue Lace is going to need a good amount of break-in. I can hear some really good stuff, but some really bad stuff too. And it seems to be shifting slightly from song to song and album to album. It wouldn't be a big deal, but I have to decide by Monday or Tuesday if I'm going to keep this cart or not. Not sure I'm hearing enough "wow" to justify what I spent, even at the serious discount I got for it.

Wish I could hear a broken-in cart in a system similar to mine. Oh well. Might have to stay up all night and see what changes. :)

What changes did you guys hear over the first 5, 10 & 50 hours?
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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We got it dialed in. Turns out that the pivot to spindle distance we were using was wrong. Once we had the correct measurements, it was pretty easy using the SMARTractor.

My setup guy knows his stuff. He's been in the industry a long time and this is pretty much all he does. We just had some incorrect info that the Graham distributor was able to clear up.

After fine-tuning for another 5 hours, we're pretty happy with the sound. The cart still needs to break in. There's been some nice audible gains in the last few hours. I'm just now sitting down to give it some serious listening.

Fingers crossed that it makes magic across a lot of source material. My only initial complaint is that it seems to lack a little high end shimmer/sparkle that I would expect out of a cart at this level. Hopefully that opens up with some more listening time.

Coming from a Lyra cartridge, that would be almost expected.

It should open up with more play time. Try not to listen to critically for a while.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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Coming from a Lyra cartridge, that would be almost expected.

It should open up with more play time. Try not to listen to critically for a while.

I only have a few days to decide if I'm keeping it. My feeling is that it's gotta be something special to justify what I paid for it, even at a steeply discounted price. Not sure if I'll have time for it to open up to know. Hopefully it will open up enough to give me glimpses of what's in store. So far, I'd say I'm on the fence.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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I only have a few days to decide if I'm keeping it. My feeling is that it's gotta be something special to justify what I paid for it, even at a steeply discounted price. Not sure if I'll have time for it to open up to know. Hopefully it will open up enough to give me glimpses of what's in store. So far, I'd say I'm on the fence.

That is a pretty good dealer, allowing you a few days to listen. the trouble is your Auditorium SUT may also not be ideal for the Koetsu?
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I guess in a few days we'll know if BG will be revisiting his "which cart thread".
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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That is a pretty good dealer, allowing you a few days to listen. the trouble is your Auditorium SUT may also not be ideal for the Koetsu?

Yeah, I wish I could get a better answer on this. I look at matching a cart to SUT the same way we shoul look at matching speakers to an amp. Only I can't seem to get any good info on how to know which SUT's are best for a cart with the characteristics this one has. The Shindo people will understandably all recommend the A23 SUTs since that's what the Shindo dealers sell. It's not like I can easily try a lot of different SUTs. The Koetsu SUT is a special order item and apparently takes awhile to get. And I haven't seen any objective info on it.

I already placed an order for the higher end A23. Hopefully it will sound great. Otherwise I guess I'll have to be patient and try a few, assuming I keep the Koetsu.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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I guess in a few days we'll know if BG will be revisiting his "which cart thread".

Unlikely. If I don't keep the Koetsu, I'm just going to get the EMT that my Shindo dealer recommends. I felt it was pretty colored when I auditioned it, but he and my setup guy both agree that it's not a very colored cart and it was likely something else I was hearing. I can get the highest end EMT and the big boy A23 SUT for less than I paid for the Koetsu, which is why I need the Koetsu to knock my socks off at this point. :)
 

hvbias

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Jun 22, 2012
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IMHO if you liked the Delos I would stay with the Lyras. I have heard the Titan I and it was fantastic I can only imagine the Atlas is as well.

Or some people say the Olympos which has the Lyra sound but with "better" (not my words) tonal color.

This is just my opinion after finding two cartridge brands that I truly love. These days I'm not looking for revolutionary changes in sound signatures since I know what I like and don't like, but of course experimentation is fun as well.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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That is a pretty good dealer, allowing you a few days to listen. the trouble is your Auditorium SUT may also not be ideal for the Koetsu?

Seems like the Blue Lace is a keeper. It keeps getting better with every album I play. Starting to open up nicely. I think it's only hinting at it's full potential. Still not quite as much sparkle & shimmer as I'd like to hear (I definitely hear it when I play a CD, so I know it's in the system). Hopefully it will get better on it's own, but another SUT is probably in my future either way. :)
 

number95

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May 14, 2014
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Seems like the Blue Lace is a keeper. It keeps getting better with every album I play. Starting to open up nicely. I think it's only hinting at it's full potential. Still not quite as much sparkle & shimmer as I'd like to hear (I definitely hear it when I play a CD, so I know it's in the system). Hopefully it will get better on it's own, but another SUT is probably in my future either way. :)

I do not want to mix things but if aligned properly, even from very beginning it should toast the digital unless you have top of the end (like 4 piece DCS etc) digital source. My two cents of course. Perhaps due SUT, not quite sure.
 

Grooves

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Feb 29, 2012
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I had read that the oval (egg shaped) headshell had some limitations with certain cartridges. Even setting up my LP and LP-S I was finding the screws nearly maxed out. I believe that was one reason Bob went to the squarish shaped headshell later on. I'm curious, it sounds like the person doing your set up wasn't using the armwand jig to set spindle-pivot point. Why was that? I've set up, re-set up my Graham 2 and my Supreme arms usng that method and to me it's the best part of Bob's set-up. I know
Wally M. claims it no to be the best but compared to using a ruler and guessing where the pivot point atop the bearing cap resides. it seems pretty foolproof to me.
I'm glad you have it straightened out though.
 

bgupton

New Member
Sep 23, 2014
109
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San Francisco, CA
I had read that the oval (egg shaped) headshell had some limitations with certain cartridges. Even setting up my LP and LP-S I was finding the screws nearly maxed out. I believe that was one reason Bob went to the squarish shaped headshell later on. I'm curious, it sounds like the person doing your set up wasn't using the armwand jig to set spindle-pivot point. Why was that? I've set up, re-set up my Graham 2 and my Supreme arms usng that method and to me it's the best part of Bob's set-up. I know
Wally M. claims it no to be the best but compared to using a ruler and guessing where the pivot point atop the bearing cap resides. it seems pretty foolproof to me.
I'm glad you have it straightened out though.

Because Graham's quality control is a bit suspect and he sent my 10" arm out with the 9" jig which was useless.
 

PBNAUDIO

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2012
4
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San Diego CA
Happy that this finally was resolved with a satisfactorily outcome

Because Graham's quality control is a bit suspect and he sent my 10" arm out with the 9" jig which was useless.

Happy that the Koetsu Blue Lace once set up correctly is working to its full potential.

Good listening

Peter
 

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