Lyra Atlas or Koetsu or something else?

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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Looks like I need to send my Lyra Delos in for servicing (wasabi paper has some issues). Could take 8 weeks to turn around. I was already planning to upgrade in a few months, so thinking I'll do it now since I don't wanna go without vinyl for 2 months and don't have a backup cart.

I'm considering upgrading to a Lyra Atlas, Koetsu Jade Platinum or Koetsu Blue Lace (I can get a lightly used one for about the same price as the other two options). I really like a silky smooth sound, but listen to a lot of rock and want solid bass.

I auditioned a Koetsu Onyx Platinum, but frankly it's impossible to for me to tell much in a system I'm unfamiliar with in what I think is a pretty terrible setup. If I go with the Blue Lace, I'll have 2 weeks to try it out. If I go with the Atlas or Jade, I'm basically buying on rep. Not ideal, but I'm sure either of these will be a clear improvement.

Can anyone breakdown the sonic characteristic of these carts and how they are likely to sound in a system like mine.

Here's what I'm running:

Brinkmann Oasis with Graham Phantom Supreme II
Shindo Vosne Romanee pre-amp
A23 103 SUT
Shindo Lafon gm70 monoblocks
Shindo 604 Altec speakers

Obviously I'm most concerned with matching the table, arm, cart and SUT. Any insight on whether this would be a bad, good, great or stupendous match?

p.s. I'm only looking at carts that I can get without a wait. That puts the new Etna out for me which is too bad.

p.s.s. I listen to a lot of modern indie rock and shoegaze-y music. It's not always the best recordings. I want a cart that is going to help this stuff shine or at least not make it irritating.
 
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JackD201

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Solid is definitely how I would describe the Atlas. Dense, solid images with great punch while able to do subtle detail and shading. My Jade is solid too but I found it to be more solid on my Triplanar than my Phantom. Given the arm I would personally lean towards the Lyra. I might go the other way with a gimbal arm. That's just me though.

Happy hunting!
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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Solid is definitely how I would describe the Atlas. Dense, solid images with great punch while able to do subtle detail and shading. My Jade is solid too but I found it to be more solid on my Triplanar than my Phantom. Given the arm I would personally lean towards the Lyra. I might go the other way with a gimbal arm. That's just me though.

Happy hunting!

What I'm looking for is something I've heard others describe as liquid. Something with no graininess. Which of these would be better for that? Also, any other carts you think I should be considering given my system?
 

JackD201

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Lyra has become much more liquid with this new generation as have others like Clearaudio. Koetsus are surely liquid. I am a Matsudaira fan so I do like carts from Air Tight, MY Sonic Labs and TechDAS. I like Matsudaira's work because of a general sense of balance throughout the range. Not as explosive as say my GFS or Atlas, not as airy nor as sweet on strings as my XV-1t, not as vivid as my Koetsu but have a lot of everything. Soundstage is a bit more recessed as a result but in a way more cinematic in scope. Like sitting a few rows further back and trading in shock and awe for a perspective from which you can better take everything in.

Sorry for the ramble. I'm a cart addict and I love all of my carts like my kids. I just appreciate them all for what makes them different and special. None of them are "bad kids". FOrtunately none of my real kids are either. :D
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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if 'silky smooth' is your deal, then you might consider the Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum instead of a stone body.

your balance would be toward more tonal weight and a degree of roundness and lack of edge. yet it does not lose definition other than a tad softness (not quite flabby) in bass articulation although with plenty of weight, just keeps you in the 'smooth'. it still has the refinement of the Platinum magnets.

I had one for 10 years while I went through a bunch of other cartridges and various arms and tt's. it always delivered music. one of the arms I used it on was a Graham.

most of the more recent designs do pursue more of a neutral and linear viewpoint than the RSP. but while rich and lush relatively, it's still lively and involving. never dead or sterile in any way. it will reliably put a smile on your face, and your body will relax into it. I would call it the 'Garrard 301' of cartridges.....high praise.
 
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bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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The Koetsu's also get it done in the looks department. They are stunning. Unfortunately since you can't easily audition these carts in your home system, it's difficult to pick on anything other than looks, reviews and advice from other owners. I might end up with the used Blue Lace simply because I'll get a period to do an in home evaluation. Of course, that won't give me a chance to compare it to these others, but at least I can see how it sounds to my ears. Also, the Koetsu distributor lives nearby and has agreed to give the cart a close inspection.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Hi Bg

you asked for my opinion, so her goes for what its worth.

I have only owned a Rosewood Std, so my Koetsu experience is limited.

Given you listen to a lot of indie rock (as I do), and the rest of your system - Lyra is your cartridge imo. You already have superb tone from the Shindo gear, so with Koetsu it may be too much. Lyra excels in transient attack, control of bass which are essential in rock/pop/electronic music and transparency which can be a doubled edge sword.
The Atlas is very coherent top to bottom so the Delos sounds a little more spotlit in the treble whereas the Atlas is more holographic, smoother yet more athletic and revealing of the music being played - if that makes any sense.

It it were me I would jump at the Atlas :D

Longer term another table/ tonearm with a warmer cartridge is great so you can play the appropriate table given the music type or recording.

let us know what you end up getting.
 

Peter Breuninger

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Sunnyboy1956

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Hi Bg

you asked for my opinion, so her goes for what its worth.

I have only owned a Rosewood Std, so my Koetsu experience is limited.

Given you listen to a lot of indie rock (as I do), and the rest of your system - Lyra is your cartridge imo. You already have superb tone from the Shindo gear, so with Koetsu it may be too much. Lyra excels in transient attack, control of bass which are essential in rock/pop/electronic music and transparency which can be a doubled edge sword.
The Atlas is very coherent top to bottom so the Delos sounds a little more spotlit in the treble whereas the Atlas is more holographic, smoother yet more athletic and revealing of the music being played - if that makes any sense.

It it were me I would jump at the Atlas :D

Longer term another table/ tonearm with a warmer cartridge is great so you can play the appropriate table given the music type or recording.

let us know what you end up getting.
As a long term Lyra/Atlas customer I completely agree with XV-1
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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San Francisco, CA
Hi Bg

you asked for my opinion, so her goes for what its worth.

I have only owned a Rosewood Std, so my Koetsu experience is limited.

Given you listen to a lot of indie rock (as I do), and the rest of your system - Lyra is your cartridge imo. You already have superb tone from the Shindo gear, so with Koetsu it may be too much. Lyra excels in transient attack, control of bass which are essential in rock/pop/electronic music and transparency which can be a doubled edge sword.
The Atlas is very coherent top to bottom so the Delos sounds a little more spotlit in the treble whereas the Atlas is more holographic, smoother yet more athletic and revealing of the music being played - if that makes any sense.

It it were me I would jump at the Atlas :D

Longer term another table/ tonearm with a warmer cartridge is great so you can play the appropriate table given the music type or recording.

let us know what you end up getting.

Thanks XV-1. I guess my only concern with the Atlas is that I've heard people say that it can be a bit analytical and lean. I find that my ears are REALLY sensitive to things described as analytical. I tend to listen to my music I higher than average listening levels and a good bit of the source material I'm listening to is not necessarily audiophile recordings. In my experience, stuff described as analytical tends to shine with high quality recordings, but make lesser recordings sound horrible. Anyone know how the Atlas handles this?

Honestly, I think my heart wants a Koetsu, but I realize that there are a lot of detractors out there that say the sound quality of the higher end Koetsu's isn't in line with the other top "ultra" carts. I'm having Stirling Trayle do my setup, so no matter what I get I'm sure I will be getting the maximum sonic value out of it.

I'm pulling the trigger on something today, so your further input is super appreciated. :)
 

Johnny Vinyl

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I would say that if your heart really wants a Koetsu then you've already answered the question. Who cares what the detractors say...they're your ears and you should know what they like. ;)
 
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Frank750

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I have a Coralstone Platinum and Goldfinger Statement. I prefer the Coralstone by quite a bit over the Goldfinger and I love the Goldfinger.
I don't think the Coralstone lacks for anything. I listen to vinyl almost exclusively and most of the time it's run of the mill rock and pop records.
Can't compare it to the Atlas as I've only heard it on other people's systems.
 

bgupton

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I have a Coralstone Platinum and Goldfinger Statement. I prefer the Coralstone by quite a bit over the Goldfinger and I love the Goldfinger.
I don't think the Coralstone lacks for anything. I listen to vinyl almost exclusively and most of the time it's run of the mill rock and pop records.
Can't compare it to the Atlas as I've only heard it on other people's systems.

How colored would you say the stone bodied Koetsu's are? I find that sometimes carts that do tone really well tend to color vocals in an unnatural & distracting way. I know you can get used to that, especially if the tone is really great, but I do find it distracting. Thoughts?
 

Bruce B

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I have a Coralstone Platinum and Goldfinger Statement. I prefer the Coralstone by quite a bit over the Goldfinger and I love the Goldfinger.
I don't think the Coralstone lacks for anything. I listen to vinyl almost exclusively and most of the time it's run of the mill rock and pop records.
Can't compare it to the Atlas as I've only heard it on other people's systems.

Another vote for the Koetsu. I have the Coralstone Platinum as well and listen to non-audiophile Rock. It does make the experience more bearable but still allows for the true tonal quality to come out without coloration. I tried the Goldfinger and didn't like it. Was too analytical/in your face for me. The only other cart. I'd consider would be the Airtight Supreme.
 
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Frank750

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How colored would you say the stone bodied Koetsu's are? I find that sometimes carts that do tone really well tend to color vocals in an unnatural & distracting way. I know you can get used to that, especially if the tone is really great, but I do find it distracting. Thoughts?

I don't find it colored at all. Very natural sounding.
 

bgupton

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Sep 23, 2014
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San Francisco, CA
Another vote for the Koetsu. I have the Coralstone Platinum as well and listen to non-audiophile Rock. It does make the experience more bearable but still allows for the true tonal quality to come out without coloration. I tried the Goldfinger and didn't like it. Was too analytical/in your face for me. The only other cart. I'd consider would be the Airtight Supreme.

My understanding is that the Airtight's aren't a good fit for my Graham Phantom Supreme II. True?
 

number95

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May 14, 2014
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My understanding is that the Airtight's aren't a good fit for my Graham Phantom Supreme II. True?

I believe the truth is the exact opposite. I would be more concerned for Koetsu if it was my choice to use with Supreme II.

Regarding smooth/liquid (strong tonal palette) cartridge with good bass definition (I mean texture not the slam) as you have said at your first post, you may check Ikeda 9tt or Kai as well. I have no idea about availability of Ikeda in US or how well they are known. Ikeda for sure has a different musical presentation compared to Lyra but if you can audition, it is worth trying.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Thanks XV-1. I guess my only concern with the Atlas is that I've heard people say that it can be a bit analytical and lean. I find that my ears are REALLY sensitive to things described as analytical. I tend to listen to my music I higher than average listening levels and a good bit of the source material I'm listening to is not necessarily audiophile recordings. In my experience, stuff described as analytical tends to shine with high quality recordings, but make lesser recordings sound horrible. Anyone know how the Atlas handles this?

Honestly, I think my heart wants a Koetsu, but I realize that there are a lot of detractors out there that say the sound quality of the higher end Koetsu's isn't in line with the other top "ultra" carts. I'm having Stirling Trayle do my setup, so no matter what I get I'm sure I will be getting the maximum sonic value out of it.

I'm pulling the trigger on something today, so your further input is super appreciated. :)

If you like the Delos, you will love the Atlas. Atlas could only be analytical and lean if the systek feeding it tends to be.

If you really want a Koetsu, go for it.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I don't know if its today's arms or changes made by Koetsu but I haven't had any tracking problems with my Koetsu carts. I haven't really heard of any problems from others either except an isolated case where a souther arm had rails that needed a bit of TLC.
 

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