TT Recommendations

kroslos · Feb 9, 2015

Hello all. I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

I'll be upgrading my analog front end and was looking for some recommendations on a good ~$5K turntable. I'm probably going to go with a Graham Phantom Elite arm; so I'll need to know if your recommendations on the TT are good matches with the Elite. Until I upgrade the arm, I'll be using my current Graham 1.5tc.

Thanks, and I've enjoyed reading through the numerous and informative posts on this forum.

Kyle

kroslos · Feb 9, 2015

I should have noted my other equipment. Here you go...

Air Tight ATM-2's Mono'ed; Air Tight ATC-2 Line Stage; Air Tight ATE-2 Phono Stage; Air Tight ATH-2A Reference SUT; SOTA Star Saphire; Graham 1.5TC; Koetsu Onyx Platinum Diamond, Koetsu Rosewood Signature; Accuphase DP65; Chario Academy III's; Accrotec 8-9's Speaker Cable; Custom Silver I/C's.

slowGEEZR · Feb 9, 2015

I suggest TTW. I love mine!

audioarcher · Feb 9, 2015

I'm guessing the Graham Elite deserves better than a $5,000 table. The TW Acustic Raven One is around $5k and has the ability to mount a Graham arm. I believe the Raven can be upgraded in the future.

Roksan Xerxes 20 is another good one in that range. Not sure if you can mount a Graham on it though.

jfrech · Feb 9, 2015

You might consider a great direct drive. The Grand Prix Audio Monaco is a excellent choice and pairs well with the Graham's...

Sorry tried to delete this post. I missed your price range ....I might keep your Sota and step up your cartridge. The rosewood signature is great- I've heard it- it can be bettered- the airtight cartridges are excellent for example.

PeterA · Feb 9, 2015

Isn't the Graham Elite around $12K? If so, then your arm plus turntable budget is around $17K.

If you are open to other arm suggestions, then you might get some very interesting suggestions for arm/table combinations, especially if you consider going used. My friend just bought a fully refurbished Technics SP10 MK3 plus an SME V-12 arm for less than $17K. A new SME 20/3A with V arm would cost less than $17K. The less expensive Kronos could be interesting as would a Basis. You could also consider a Brinkmann Bardo, direct drive with a less expensive arm. Lots of options if you spend less on the arm.

If you are definite about the Elite, then I would look for a good used turntable for $5K. Many people prefer Graham arms to SME arms, so you might consider a used SME Model 10 for about $6-7K and a Graham Phantom II or Elite.

JackD201 · Feb 9, 2015

I would second the TW Raven for a Graham arm. My AC-3 served me for very many happy years. So happy in fact that I decided not to sell it even when I could have used the money. I opted to save it for the rest house we're planning to build in a few years.

number95 · Feb 11, 2015

My two cents is if one looks for the absolute best from a pivotal tonearm like Graham Elite which is Graham's best effort on top of already very good Phantom II Supreme and Phantom III as well as significantly more expensive than those (12k usd retail), then why go with 5k table? A better tonearm may not show its best with a budget turntable and sometimes even may not please. At least these are my experiences. If the choice is already Graham, I would rather go with Phantom II Supreme and use the funds to buy a more expensive table.

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 11, 2015

^^^ This makes sense to me. That arm is too much for a $5,000 table and you won't get the best from it.

jfrech · Feb 11, 2015

number95 said:
My two cents is if one looks for the absolute best from a pivotal tonearm like Graham Elite which is Graham's best effort on top of already very good Phantom II Supreme and Phantom III as well as significantly more expensive than those (12k usd retail), then why go with 5k table? A better tonearm may not show its best with a budget turntable and sometimes even may not please. At least these are my experiences. If the choice is already Graham, I would rather go with Phantom II Supreme and use the funds to buy a more expensive table.

+1. PeterA was on this path above also as well...

KeithR · Feb 11, 2015

+1

spend the big bucks on a table. I use a 2k arm on my Brinkmann Bardo- i might not even upgrade.

as far as TTs, you have to figure out if you want DD vs belt, heavy mass vs suspension, etc.

Ron Resnick · Feb 12, 2015

i agree with number95 and KeithR. The cost of the tonearms you are considering with an anticipated $5,000 turntable seems unbalanced.

I used and liked a Graham 2.0 and then 2.2 for many years, so I can certainly endorse his tonearms. Perhaps consider a less expensive Graham tonearm with one of the lower-end Basis turntables? Graham arms on basis tables do well together.

I would also look at the Basis Vector tonearm on whichever Basis turntable would fit within your budget. (After enjoying a VPI TNT Mk. IV for many years, but getting frustrated with the tweakiness of the airpods, I am now looking at the Basis Debut Signature or the Inspiration.)

It is a fun project! Enjoy it and good luck!

Best wishes,

kroslos · Feb 12, 2015

Thanks all for the replies and feedback. I've been traveling and quite busy; so I apologize for the delayed response.

A common theme that I'm hearing here is "why in the world would you put a Ferrari engine in a VW body?". Point taken. While I receive tremendous enjoyment from my current TT/Tonearm combo, I would like to upgrade both, and the sequence of my upgrade path was tonearm first/TT second. I'd love to do both at once; however, present circumstances prohibit me from doing that. Additionally, doing the upgrades in incremental steps (regardless which comes first) gives me an opportunity to evaluate the incremental impact of each one.

I'm still in the research mode and am not quite ready to lock and load.

Thanks again for all of the input.

Kyle
T

stewart0722 · Feb 21, 2015

Incremental upgrades eat all your money that could go for ......upgrades

You do a 5K table now knowing that you're gonna end up with an 11K table later
to do your supreme justice, so you drop kick the 5K table onto audiogon for 3K and
end up taking 2600 with you covering paypal and shipping and so you lost half
your investment which could have gone into a 14K table, or reduced the 11K
table to less than 9K.

If I were you, I'd do the Phantom III and find a giant killer of a table that wouldn't
wither at the competition of 10K to 20K tables. I would look at the Merrill Williams
101.2 which can be had in the 6-7K range. You should be able to get a Phantom III
arm in that same range......and with the correct cartidge, you might just be done
forever.......

Another way you could go is either the AMG V12 for 12-13K complete after discount
and partner it with their Teatro cartridge which I think is around 2K or so.....
They also have a new Giro table which should be 8 or 9K after discount.......

I think either of these options would handily out-perform a Graham Elite on a sub-par
table......

stewart0722 · Feb 21, 2015

There is a VPI traveler on gon right now under 1K incl dustcover......
you could probably land it in the 800-900 range

kroslos said:
Thanks all for the replies and feedback. I've been traveling and quite busy; so I apologize for the delayed response.

A common theme that I'm hearing here is "why in the world would you put a Ferrari engine in a VW body?". Point taken. While I receive tremendous enjoyment from my current TT/Tonearm combo, I would like to upgrade both, and the sequence of my upgrade path was tonearm first/TT second. I'd love to do both at once; however, present circumstances prohibit me from doing that. Additionally, doing the upgrades in incremental steps (regardless which comes first) gives me an opportunity to evaluate the incremental impact of each one.

I'm still in the research mode and am not quite ready to lock and load.

Thanks again for all of the input.

Kyle
T

kroslos · Feb 24, 2015

All,

Narrowing down my TT choices. Basis 2500 or Oracle Delphi MkVI? Opinions? Additionally, which is the best mate for a Graham arm. I have a 1.5tc now but will upgrade at some later point in time.

Kyle

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 24, 2015

kroslos said:
All,

Narrowing down my TT choices. Basis 2500 or Oracle Delphi MkVI? Opinions? Additionally, which is the best mate for a Graham arm. I have a 1.5tc now but will upgrade at some later point in time.

Kyle

The Delphi hands down! It's what I wanted, but it's above my pricepoint, so I settled on the Paris. Customer service is excellent as well.

spiritofmusic · Feb 27, 2015

I'm going to throw my tt/arm into the ring. Trans Fi Audio Salvation direct rim drive tt w/magnetic bearing/isolation and the Trans Fi Audio Terminator T3Pro air bearing linear tracking arm. Comes as a complete package UK£2500, equates to US$5k-$6k. Handily beat tt/arms at 10x the price I auditioned.

Grooves · Mar 5, 2015

I'll weigh in on this topic since I did a similar upgrade recently. I went from a Graham 2.2 to a Phantom II-S and from a MIchell Orbe to a TWA Raven Two (2-arm). While the TT upgrade was noticable and worth it, the move from 2.2 to Phantom was the biggest difference by far. It was like moving from a 4-cyl to an 8-cyl car. I'd move to the Phantom first especially with your list of cartridges. You will think you have a whole new system. Really, it's that much of a difference.
When I was looking for a new TT in "2000" I listed to the Basis 2500 and the Delphi. Having an LP12, I did not want another suspended deck that was a pain to set up. The Delphi was a bit in that league and too much metal for my taste. I went with a Michell Orbe SE but in retrospect I wished I'd gone with the Basis. I probably would have just upgraded to the Phantom but it has some possible weight issues with the Orbe. Having had two suspended TT's and now a non-suspended one I am sold on the non-suspended units. I recently have heard the AMG GIRO and was very impressed. I've also recently heard a newer Roksan and it has sounded very good as well. The TWA's and AMG's both can do 2 tonearms easily as well.

Loheswaran · Mar 13, 2015

Out of interest what is your current deck - or have I been a bit un-observant?
In any event, I have heard a Graham Arm on an SME 20 and it sounded a lot better than the SME V/20 combo. So why not check out the SME model 10 - not sure about USD price at present.
If you haven't got the arm as yet, why not check out a Helius Alexia or the Townshend Rock 7. I have an Elite Rock amongst some other deck, and the trough renders expensive arm choice pointless to some degree save for good quality cable. I think the Helius comes with a good arm, and has a very good speed control and suspension system - not heard it yet - I must confess, but a lot more interesting than most other decks out there

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