Esoteric K01 vs dCS Puccini

nirodha · Feb 2, 2015

asiufy said:
Unless Esoteric has an analog volume control now, I wouldn't use it the VC in their units.
Ditto for dCS.
Going amp direct with both will be shocking at first, but tiring in the long run.

alexandre

Nope, disagree. Have a dCS Elgar Plus and used it as a pre, feeding the Spectral 360s. Never tiring, always involving.
Wim

asiufy · Feb 4, 2015

Alpinist said:
Hi Alexandre,

I've been running the Esoteric K-01 straight to my Soulution 501 mono amps for the last several months and the sound is anything but tiring. There are trade-offs going with or without the preamp as I've described in a previous post. I could make the case that running without preamp is less fatiguing because its sounds more neutral in the treble. However, the preamp adds some nice things too.

Ken

Have you had a preamp in the system for any good amount of time?
It has to be noted that I haven't heard the K-xx series Esoterics, and my comments apply to the X-xx and P-xx/D-xx series, as well as the dCS Puccini.
Anyway, I'm glad that going amp direct has worked out for you guys. But I still think a preamp (or some kind of analog volume control) improves overall musicality, and long term enjoyment.

alexandre

Elberoth · Feb 4, 2015

I would argue, that a preamp adds a certain coloration (at least in case of going direct with dCS gear), that some people may prefer.

I was able to voice a system to my liking going amp direct - it is definately more tricky (one less component and one less pair of cables to alter the sound) but it is perfectly doable. I have sold my ARC Ref 3 (which was their top of the line pre back then) after I tried going direct and never regreted the move.

I have tried several preamps along the way, just to make sure I'm not missing sth, including well regarded SS (Spectrall 30SS) and tube (Kondo M-1000mkII) designs, but in the end I still prefered going direct.

And if you think how can you reinvest the money you have just saved going direct (a pre, an extra PC and an extra IC) ... there are quite a few possibilities.

Alpinist · Feb 4, 2015

asiufy said:
Have you had a preamp in the system for any good amount of time?
It has to be noted that I haven't heard the K-xx series Esoterics, and my comments apply to the X-xx and P-xx/D-xx series, as well as the dCS Puccini.
Anyway, I'm glad that going amp direct has worked out for you guys. But I still think a preamp (or some kind of analog volume control) improves overall musicality, and long term enjoyment.

alexandre

Alexandre,

Yes, I had the Pass XP-30 preamp in my system for over one year and I had the Cary SLP-05 preamp in my system for six months. These preamps both improved smoothness and warmth but also added treble brightness. Running directly from the Esoteric K-01 to the amps (Pass XA-100.5, Pass XA-100.8 and Soulution 501) was more neutral and less fatiguing. I'll be adding the Soulution 520 preamp to my system in a couple of weeks and I'll give a full report. But based on dealer auditions, where we added and subtracted the preamp from the system, I'm expecting the exact same results. So why do it? Because for me, I like what adding the preamp does to the texture of the sound but there are definite trade-offs. I can see why some would prefer to run direct without the preamp and I know several audiophiles who do with outstanding results.

Ken

sbo6 · Feb 16, 2015

Alpinist said:
Alexandre,

Yes, I had the Pass XP-30 preamp in my system for over one year and I had the Cary SLP-05 preamp in my system for six months. These preamps both improved smoothness and warmth but also added treble brightness. Running directly from the Esoteric K-01 to the amps (Pass XA-100.5, Pass XA-100.8 and Soulution 501) was more neutral and less fatiguing. I'll be adding the Soulution 520 preamp to my system in a couple of weeks and I'll give a full report. But based on dealer auditions, where we added and subtracted the preamp from the system, I'm expecting the exact same results. So why do it? Because for me, I like what adding the preamp does to the texture of the sound but there are definite trade-offs. I can see why some would prefer to run direct without the preamp and I know several audiophiles who do with outstanding results.

Ken

I'd be very curious to read your findings as I am in a somewhat similar situation. I have the K-03 running direct to a Wells Audio Innamorata and have never found the sound to be fatiguing or lacking dynamics. I am investigating preamps but am also skeptical of tradeoffs with and w/o a pre. One of the front runners for me is the XP-20. The only downside to no pre is no analog inputs but if the K-03/K-01 has what you need (digital ins only) then life sans preamp may be just fine.

thedudeabides · Nov 25, 2016

Hi all,

Update. Auditioning the Puccini with clock. Suffice to say I am not impressed at the moment.

Any thoughts on burn in time with a used unit. Also any input on balanced versus single ended?

Thanks for any comments.

PS: I auditioned a K01 about a year ago and ended up returning.

caesar · Nov 25, 2016

thedudeabides said:
Hi all,

Update. Auditioning the Puccini with clock. Suffice to say I am not impressed at the moment.

Any thoughts on burn in time with a used unit. Also any input on balanced versus single ended?

Thanks for any comments.

PS: I auditioned a K01 about a year ago and ended up returning.

Hi Dude,

No surprise that you don't like either. Both the older dcs and esoteric require very careful system matching to sound musical. And even then there is no guarantee that you would like that flavor.

Considering that you like Cary and CJ, I would audition the chord Dave and a totaldac model in same price range. Both are steals with the current exchange rate.

According to Alan Sircom out of all people, chord destroys the Rossini & clock , and is 1/3 the price, as he reviewed both. I only heard chord at shows and it is very special.

Barry2013 · Nov 25, 2016

thedudeabides said:
Hi all,

Update. Auditioning the Puccini with clock. Suffice to say I am not impressed at the moment.

Any thoughts on burn in time with a used unit. Also any input on balanced versus single ended?

Thanks for any comments.

PS: I auditioned a K01 about a year ago and ended up returning.

Balanced is definitely better using the balanced outputs on the Puccini.
I changed my Puccini clock for a used Scarlatti clock which was a big improvement. Haven't tried it but I have been reliably told that the Paganini clock also works well. Neither too difficult to find. If your dealer has one available do give it a try before finally deciding.

thedudeabides · Nov 25, 2016

Thank you caesar. Sounds like that is what is going on.

Funny how reviews don't mention that fact.

PS: I find it somewhat incomprehensible that my 8.5 year old CDP, with a street value of $2,500, sounds so much better than a unit (discontinued less than a year ago) with an MSRP of $24K.

thedudeabides · Nov 25, 2016

Thank you Barry. My pre only has single ended connections.

Barry2013 · Nov 25, 2016

Sorry I hadn't appreciated that but do try the Puccini player with a Paganini or Scarlatti clock if you can.

Lee · Nov 29, 2016

caesar said:
Hi Dude,

No surprise that you don't like either. Both the older dcs and esoteric require very careful system matching to sound musical. And even then there is no guarantee that you would like that flavor.

Considering that you like Cary and CJ, I would audition the chord Dave and a totaldac model in same price range. Both are steals with the current exchange rate.

According to Alan Sircom out of all people, chord destroys the Rossini & clock , and is 1/3 the price, as he reviewed both. I only heard chord at shows and it is very special.

The Chord Dave is a current fave of mine...https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/11/23/rmaf-2016-chord-electronics/

Barry2013 · Nov 30, 2016

Has anybody heard or tried the Chord Dave with DCS Paganini or Scarlatti transports?

caesar · Nov 30, 2016

Barry2013 said:
Has anybody heard or tried the Chord Dave with DCS Paganini or Scarlatti transports?

Barry, that's probably a tough ask, as most Paganini and Scarlatti owners most likely upgraded within the dcs line.

But I do find it interesting that Alan Sircom doesn't even mention any difference between connections. Of course, he could be negligent, or the DAC is so good, it can equally take any data stream and turn it into music.

http://www.signals.uk.com/wp-conten...-review-HiFi-Plus-issue-141-November-2016.pdf

Barry2013 · Nov 30, 2016

Thanks Caesar
Yes I agree it is a tough ask at this stage but it strikes me as an intriguing possible option, particularly with a Scarlatti transport, and it will be interesting to see if there are any further comments.

dctom · Dec 27, 2016

I tried the Puccini and usb clock at home - compared with my old Arc CD5 and a 2nd hand Playback designs MPS-5, bought the PD.
I have been told the new PD merlot DAC is superior to the MPS-5/MPD and a lot cheaper. It can be coupled with an oppo disc player (recommended by PD) for CD and SACD playback, you can even rip SACDs using this system.

microstrip · Dec 27, 2016

dctom said:
(...) It can be coupled with an oppo disc player (recommended by PD) for CD and SACD playback, you can even rip SACDs using this system.

It is great, but how is it possible? As far as I have read manufacturers can not implement and sell such system due to SACD copyright agreements.

dctom · Dec 27, 2016

PD have developed a device (op box) that can be fitted inside the oppo player to output all types of digital data. I dont know about the Sacd copyright arrangements, maybe because it is a device for personal use and part of a proprietary system ?

this is a link to the PD page in question

http://www.playbackdesigns.com/docs/productsheets/playback-designs-OpBox.pdf

microstrip · Dec 27, 2016

dctom said:
PD have developed a device (op box) that can be fitted inside the oppo player to output all types of digital data. I dont know about the Sacd copyright arrangements, maybe because it is a device for personal use and part of a proprietary system ?

this is a link to the PD page in question

http://www.playbackdesigns.com/docs/productsheets/playback-designs-OpBox.pdf

Thanks - but as far as I could read from this document they do not offer ripping facilities. They just pick the SADC data from the OPPO and send it through a proprietary channel to the DAC.

dctom · Dec 27, 2016

Yes sorry, I might have miss read that, you can definitely get the native digital from the sacd.

However.... I think if you use this free sonoma software on the products page..............

'The Sonoma Recorder is a free software application for the Windows platform that allows you to record natively any digital audio being generated by the Pinot A/D Converter or being played through the Merlot D/A Converter

Esoteric K01 vs dCS Puccini

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