Esoteric K-03 external clock benefits + balanced vs unbalanced

sbo6

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I picked up an Esoteric K-03 and am contemplating purchasing an external clock (Esoteric or Antelope Audio maybe). Any experience with Esoteric single box players and an external clock? Esoteric vs other brand clocks? Also, any difference in sonics running balanced or unbalanced out to a preamp? I look forward to any comments.
 

CKKeung

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I picked up an Esoteric K-03 and am contemplating purchasing an external clock (Esoteric or Antelope Audio maybe). Any experience with Esoteric single box players and an external clock? Esoteric vs other brand clocks? Also, any difference in sonics running balanced or unbalanced out to a preamp? I look forward to any comments.

The most important pitfall of Esoteric digital frontends is that their performance is compromised if without an external clock.
And even an entry grade Antelope OCX or Apogee Big Ben can improve their performance significantly . My frds and I did the comparison with a K-01 2 yrs ago.
In Hong Kong, >50% of Esoteric sacd player owners pair them with external clocks.

The best is of course Esoteric's own Rb atomic clock, followed by the Antelope atomic clock.
Some HK audiophiles use the lower-priced Antelope Trinity initially, then add on an atomic clock later when they get the fund needed.
 

caesar

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I have heard various esoteric models with esoteric clocks, but not K-03, specifically, and not other brands of clocks you bring up. If you have the money, a clock is a no-brainer investment in getting the music to sound more "right".

And balanced is slightly better to non-balanced. However, I would not go out of my way to buy something balanced for the sake being balanced, unless it is your first choice.
 

sbo6

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Thanks for the information. I was curious if anyone has heard of the SRS Perf-10 clock? I'm surprised to read nothing on the forums yet it sounds to be an excellent clock (.o5ppb for $3.5K) at a reasonable price.
 

CKKeung

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Thanks for the information. I was curious if anyone has heard of the SRS Perf-10 clock? I'm surprised to read nothing on the forums yet it sounds to be an excellent clock (.o5ppb for $3.5K) at a reasonable price.

This SRS Perf-10 clock is on par with Antelope Audio 10M atomic clock. Both can be further enhanced by giving them linear DC power-supplies.
I heard that some Taiwan CAS audiophiles are using this Perf-10.
http://www.thinksrs.com/products/PERF10.htm

The Esoteric Rb atomic clock may have better built and internal linear psu but is many times more expensive.
 

sbo6

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This SRS Perf-10 clock is on par with Antelope Audio 10M atomic clock. Both can be further enhanced by giving them linear DC power-supplies.
I heard that some Taiwan CAS audiophiles are using this Perf-10.
http://www.thinksrs.com/products/PERF10.htm

The Esoteric Rb atomic clock may have better built and internal linear psu but is many times more expensive.

Yes CK, that's the Perf10 I was referring to. SRS seems to be the supplier for Esoteric's Rubidium clocks and is less expensive compared to the Antelope 10M. Also, I'm not sure you need to add the Antelope 10M to the Antelope OCX since the K-03 (and K-01) both can accept 10M clock input.

I recently purchased the Antelope Isochrone OCX and am not overly thrilled with the results. I think I prefer the external clock off. Not sure if it's the cables (Using Cullen digital and PC for now) the clock itself or both.
 

CKKeung

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I recently purchased the Antelope Isochrone OCX and am not overly thrilled with the results. I think I prefer the external clock off. Not sure if it's the cables (Using Cullen digital and PC for now) the clock itself or both.

Hi sho6,

Yes, the external clock's powercord and clock cable affect the sonic performance a lot, particularly the former.

Many friends of mine and I are using Blackcat/Stereolab digital cables as clock cables in Hong Kong.
They are designed by Chris Sommovigo. The famous Kimber Audio Illuminata and Orchid series of digital cables were designed by him.
http://www.thecableco.com/category.aspx?cid=437&mid=7034

As clock cables, even the entry level SilverStar75 performs much better than many big names such as Wireworld ... etc.

Cheers,
CK
 
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Barry2013

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I had an Esoteric XO3SE which I found too clinical for my tastes, but it improved significantly with the addition of a used DCS Verona word clock.
I subsequently bought a DCS Puccini and then a U Clock which I very much preferred. About a month ago I swapped the U Clock for a Scarlatti clock and that gave a big improvement.
I don't post this to knock your Esoteric but to suggest you might like to consider a used DCS clock which certainly in the UK and Europe are readily available.
 

CKKeung

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I had an Esoteric XO3SE which I found too clinical for my tastes, but it improved significantly with the addition of a used DCS Verona word clock.
I subsequently bought a DCS Puccini and then a U Clock which I very much preferred. About a month ago I swapped the U Clock for a Scarlatti clock and that gave a big improvement.
I don't post this to knock your Esoteric but to suggest you might like to consider a used DCS clock which certainly in the UK and Europe are readily available.

It's common knowledge in Hong Kong that Esoteric digital components such as SACD players & DAC can give only 70-80% of their potential/performance if not given an good external clock signal.

The newest Grandioso Series and K-01X/K-03X are said to be having better internal clock designs and need external clocks less.
Any members here have such direct experience?
 

sbo6

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I had an Esoteric XO3SE which I found too clinical for my tastes, but it improved significantly with the addition of a used DCS Verona word clock.
I subsequently bought a DCS Puccini and then a U Clock which I very much preferred. About a month ago I swapped the U Clock for a Scarlatti clock and that gave a big improvement.
I don't post this to knock your Esoteric but to suggest you might like to consider a used DCS clock which certainly in the UK and Europe are readily available.

Thanks Barry and CK. As for DCS clocks, I have a list of the majority of prospective external clocks including the Puccini clock and it specs at .1PPM at a cost of $5K. The Isochrone OCX I purchased cost =~$1K and specs at .02PPM, 5x more accurate. Yes, it's not as pretty and yes, it probably has a less stellar PSU, but I'd wager it matches the DCS if not betters it, but I could be wrong. I just switched to a marginally better Shunyata Venom PC and am finally getting some benefit with the clock on. For $5K, I would likely go with the SRS Lambda Perf-10 at .00005PPM on par with the Esoteric Rubidium clock. Will experiment more with PCs and digital BNC cables.
 

Barry2013

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Thanks Barry and CK. As for DCS clocks, I have a list of the majority of prospective external clocks including the Puccini clock and it specs at .1PPM at a cost of $5K. The Isochrone OCX I purchased cost =~$1K and specs at .02PPM, 5x more accurate. Yes, it's not as pretty and yes, it probably has a less stellar PSU, but I'd wager it matches the DCS if not betters it, but I could be wrong. I just switched to a marginally better Shunyata Venom PC and am finally getting some benefit with the clock on. For $5K, I would likely go with the SRS Lambda Perf-10 at .00005PPM on par with the Esoteric Rubidium clock. Will experiment more with PCs and digital BNC cables.

Thanks.
You prompted me to check the specs for the more expensive DCS clocks and they all spec at the .1 mark so the improvements going up the line are obviously in other aspects of their design. I have not heard the other clocks you identify so can't really comment on how they perform compared with the DCS ones. I am very happy with my Scarlatti clock but checking on Agon I see that they are holding their value well so not cheap even used.
 

jfrech

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Thanks.
You prompted me to check the specs for the more expensive DCS clocks and they all spec at the .1 mark so the improvements going up the line are obviously in other aspects of their design. I have not heard the other clocks you identify so can't really comment on how they perform compared with the DCS ones. I am very happy with my Scarlatti clock but checking on Agon I see that they are holding their value well so not cheap even used.

I've owned the U-Clock, the Scarlatti clock and now the Vivaldi clock. The specs are not all that different. But the sound sure is. Specs isn't everything with clocks i've found out. Definite sound improvements as you move up the line. And I agree with the other poster on power cords and digital cables. All make a real different here also.

On clock cables...it's pretty easy..I bought a Cardas lighting 15 bnc to bnc ~$240...and was easily heard. I've since tried a few others and now have the Transparent Reference XL digital.

Good luck to you...I have to agree a good clock will improve your sound !
 

sbo6

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Looking at the DCS clocks they all state wrt specs, "Typically +/-0.1ppm when shipped and stabilized." I'm thinking it's possible DCS provides this generic spec but in reality the more expensive clock yields better ppm.

Either way, the consensus is that ppm accuracy alone doesn't guarantee sonic benefits. PSU and cables need to be up to par also. Thanks for all your suggestions.
 

sbo6

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Update wrt clock cable - I purchased the highly recommended STEREOLAB Master Reference 1.0 M818 and it surely made a difference for the better. Thanks to all for the advice.
 

SCAudiophile

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It's common knowledge in Hong Kong that Esoteric digital components such as SACD players & DAC can give only 70-80% of their potential/performance if not given an good external clock signal.

The newest Grandioso Series and K-01X/K-03X are said to be having better internal clock designs and need external clocks less.
Any members here have such direct experience?

That is definitely true with regard to the K-01X, P-02/D-02 and from what friends tell me, even the P1/D1 however, you can still hear improvements when moving to the bespoke external clock solutions (more round/more musical tonality, better imaging, etc...) but I've discovered you don't necessarily have to go "all the way" up to the uber-expensive Esoteric top of the line clocks (I've owned both G-0s and G-03x in the past). Simply going to a better more stable external clock such as the G-02 for 75-ohm clock input of sample-rate match/divisor-based clock frequencies and/or a quality 10-Mhz atomic-grade "reference" clock signal input device such as the Cybershaft dual Rb & OCXO master clock (50-ohm output) delivers one hell of bump in these key areas. I've been running a Cybershaft 10-Mhz reference clock for a couple of months now and I am VERY mpressed by the end result...
 

SCAudiophile

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Looking at the DCS clocks they all state wrt specs, "Typically +/-0.1ppm when shipped and stabilized." I'm thinking it's possible DCS provides this generic spec but in reality the more expensive clock yields better ppm.

Either way, the consensus is that ppm accuracy alone doesn't guarantee sonic benefits. PSU and cables need to be up to par also. Thanks for all your suggestions.

Definitely agree.....from what I learned in my last go on this subject, the ppm/ppb specs (also used by Esoteric brand that I favor and for 2 clocks from them I owned previously) in and of themselves don't indicate clocking performance in the short-term or long-term and the same for sonic results. I was somewhat shocked at what I learned when 2 people 'schooled' me on this subject a couple of months ago; it's all about Allen Deviation, Phase Noise and clock accuracy measured over long-term play from what I took away from our conversations. Also about using the best clock (Rb or OCX) for the material you are playing back. I was surprised to learn that choice of clocking circuit for playback should be matched to the type of clocking used during mastering and that simply using an 'highly precise atomic' clock versus a high-quality oven-stabilized, so called 'lower precision' clock is not necessarily going to give more musical and accurate results. I'm still running through all this in my mind but as of late with the clocking solution in my system, properly matched 75-ohm AND 50-ohm cables, each in their proper place, and high-quality PSUs for each clock circuit, I am very happy with both the organic/musical nature as well as preciseness aspect of the results! So much left to learn !
 

hongkongfoufou

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Mar 3, 2018
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It's common knowledge in Hong Kong that Esoteric digital components such as SACD players & DAC can give only 70-80% of their potential/performance if not given an good external clock signal.

The newest Grandioso Series and K-01X/K-03X are said to be having better internal clock designs and need external clocks less.
Any members here have such direct experience?

Sorry to be so late.
I have bought a K-03XS and I have a Grimm CC1 as clock.
It's a great and huge improvment.
 

hongkongfoufou

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My old player is a Marantz SA7S1 before bought Esoteric.
Why I say that ?

The evolution is :
- Technics SL PS70
- Philips CD 723
- Arcam CD 23T
- Marantz SA7S1
- Esoteric K-03XS

Part one :
- Marantz SA7S1, after Marantz SA7S1 and clock Grimm CC1, and after Marantz SA7S1 and clock Grimm CC1 and ML N°360S

I have listen SA7S1 without Grimm CC1 and without DAC 360S.

The sound is very poor.
I listen it immediately.
I listen 3 songs on 3 different CD.

I add the Grimm CC1, always without my DAC 360S.

With Grimm CC1, music are in 3 dimensions. The voices are beautiful and are more articulated.
Timing was tighter, imaging more focused, and definition improved.

With SACD, there are more dynamics and punch, more bass and voices are more better than SA7S1 only...

Grimm CC1
FOR :
- improved sound of your CD Player and SACD
- price...less expensive than ESOTERIC or DCS clock.

AGAINST :
- doesn't accept SACD if you use external DAC. Because the digital output of SA7S1 works only for CD.

NOTE :
- with the DAC 360S, differencies are very few.

I have compare Accuphase DP 550 and SA7S1 with DAC 360S (without GRIMM CC1, I haven't bought it before this head to head)...and it's very difficult to decide which it is better...Accuphase is more analogic, SA7S1 with DAC 360S is more transparent and detailed.

In addition too with DAC 360S, Grimm CC1, Marantz SA7S1, the 3 dimensions in music is beautiful...

I have two pair XLR of Furutech Lineflux : one for listening SACD with SA7S1 and one for the DAC N°360S....so I can easily compare the two with and without Grimm CC1.

CD test are :

Ed Sheeran : X
Mariah Carey : The ones (SACD)
Marvin Gaye : Let's going on (MOFI)
Groover Washington : Winelight
George Benson : Give me the night



Part two :
- Esoteric K-03XS

( very funny because I said before :
Grimm CC1
FOR :
- improved sound of your CD Player and SACD
- price...less expensive than ESOTERIC or DCS clock.)

Please, don't laugh !

Test with K-03XS and Grimm CC1

CD GROVER WASHINGTON JR - Album: WineLight

Title: WineLight

The saxophone plays naturally without a bad pun (?) - ( sorry for my english).
It is present in the room: the sound is really in 3D.
We hear all the details.

As I have 3 versions of this album without counting the vinyls ... I decide to play the same CD except that it is in pressing 'Made in Japan'.


Title: WineLight - Made in Japan

There is a clear improvement.
The saxophone, always on the same title, is more punchy, more singing.
It goes much further in terms of definition.
There is more momentum.


Title: WineLight - Hybrid SACD in SACD mode (not CD mode)

The sound seems softer.
The saxophone seems to me less impactful than on the Japanese pressing.
The dynamics seem to me to pack.
I definitely prefer the CD version of the Japanese pressing.


In short, on the same album, 3 identical interpretations with notable differences.
The sensitivity of the support plays a huge role.



COLOSSUS SAXOPHONE CD
Sonny Rollins Quartet
Japanese pressing (Ultimate HQ)

The saxophone has never seemed so real to me.
The battery roll is clean.
The sound is detailed, precise, but also warm.
Music is very present.


CD TRACY CHAPMAN

The song SING FOR YOU is extremely searched, clear and warm.
We clearly understand the words without trying to say to each other: ‘she says what?’.



CD DIRE STRAIT - Album 'Brother in arms' - Japanese pressing

The introduction of Money for nothing is really explosive. The rest goes hand in hand ... but this album deserves better ...



SACD DIRE STRAIT - Album 'Brother in arms' - 20th anniversary

There, this SACD is above the CD in Japanese pressing, nothing to do .... Unlike the Grover Washington Junior ...
Everything is better defined.



CD Monthy Alexander Trio - Live at Montreux

The group plays masterfully well, but with this player, we are really at the heart of the concert.
The piano has never been so well defined, alive. The notes are supported and we can hear it well.
The double bass is very distinct ...

Finaly, I'm very happy with this player and with this little clock ( 2500 euros in France)


Grimm CC1
FOR :
- improved sound of your CD Player and SACD
- better with Esoteric K-03XS than Marantz SA7S1

AGAINST :
- for the price, it doesn't make the coffee in the morning !!!
What else ?

NOTE :
- with the DAC 360S, differencies are more evident with the Esoteric K-03XS.
I prefer listen Esoteric K-03XS with Grimm CC1 and ML 360S with 75% of my CD.

Hope this is help someone.
 
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