Which $20K+ priced turntables compete with $100K+ priced turntables? Differences?

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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Empty your pockets?
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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I know it emptied mine, for a while at least! :D
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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My wife sharpens the knives everyday, so I haven't emptied mine yet.

Jack, any thoughts on sonic differences b/w AF1 and AF2? Big or subtle?
 

JackD201

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Subtle but significant aside from the expanded feature set of the AF1. IOW stock vs stock. 1 retrieves just a little more detail I pressume because it is slightly better isolated. That said I think one could very well only see the AF1's potential over the AF2 in a more demanding environment (bigger system played big).
 

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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Subtle but significant aside from the expanded feature set of the AF1. IOW stock vs stock. 1 retrieves just a little more detail I pressume because it is slightly better isolated. That said I think one could very well only see the AF1's potential over the AF2 in a more demanding environment (bigger system played big).

So more detail from better isolation would then have "less noise" be it's biggest contributing factor?
 

JackD201

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It would seem so John. I remember my other tables. When playing Clarity 45 RPMs there used to be a low level roar. Gone with the AFs. I have this crazy theory about that noise using up the carts' available voltage. Drop extraneous vibrations from being fed into the cart and you get better SN perceived as both more detail and more perceived dynamic range. I think Peter Lederman of Sound Smith touched on this subject but didn't express it in exactly that same way.

Still I think it is a preference thing as well as one of philosophy and the execution thereof. I think there are two main camps. One side tries to minimize all noise, the other seeks to shape response by thoughtful harvesting of resonances. I've noticed that the very expensive tables mostly belong in the former camp even if their approaches can and do vary pretty wildly.
 

Loheswaran

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Dec 19, 2014
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Albert Porter and Mike Lavigne are pretty good authorities on this as is the chap Syntax on Audiogon. From what I have seen Mike changed the Sirius for a Wave Kinetics which is, I understand, a lot cheaper - the last Sirius 'commissioned' was silly money - even then it was good value for money given the component cost.
Albert Porter I note moved from the Walker Proscenium to a Technics SP10 Mark 3 (I know I know - to make one now would easily cost over $30,000 (that's the view of Harry Weisfield).
I am only reflecting in short what I have read, and can perhaps only dream of such equipment gracing my home, I do wonder if its a similar case to sports cars - my analogy being that something like a Nissan Skyline £50,000 is gonna be faster round a track than virtually anything short of a Ferrari the Ferrari - ie in super high end people are looking for a flavour/an accent perhaps.
 

JackD201

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I think we're all looking for something personal and looking for what best fits. It's the nature of analog life. Carts, arms, phonostages, tables, heck even mats and screws. Debates over protractors even! :)

There are sub 10k tables that take isolation very seriously beyond that it becomes a matter of degrees and success of the particular manufacturer's implementation. As far as price goes, it becomes a matter of the particular owner's desire to reap the benefits of these increasingly subtle improvements.

It takes very little to enjoy good analog but coming from someone who has gone over the edge himself, at least in my case, the differences have been well worth it. The only bad thing is that the jump had me upgrading my digital to keep up. For multi-format listeners it becomes a double whammy.
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
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Of course, there are offerings at all prices that fall short of the mark, but I would expect a truly top-flight turntable to provide a level of performance not found in lesser pieces. In my opinion, this is most evident in the turntable's presentation of dynamics, especially micro dynamics. In A-B listening, the lesser units will sound veiled by comparison. At least, that's what I have noticed that stands out most. Also, the better turntable will point out the strengths, and deficiencies, of associated equipment ranging from cartridges and tonearms, and even tubes. Previously masked characteristics become apparent.
 

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