Turntable Mats

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
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Anyone use turntable mats? Ever since a disappointing episode with an Oracle sticky mat on my Ariston RD 110 turntable, I had never experimented on any mats out there. I read some people swear they alter the sound but I was thinking it might be due to the VTA being shorter.
 

MC352

New Member
Aug 27, 2010
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I wonder about the mats, and the record rings. The only mat I ever purchased was one of those anti-static mats.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
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I wonder about the mats, and the record rings. The only mat I ever purchased was one of those anti-static mats.

I used an AM Mat from Denmark a long time ago, its surface was kinda rough so I thought it might actually scuff my records in the long run. The outer rings are a bit tiring to put on, but it does serve one purpose well, that is to play mildly warped records. My biggest fear is accidentally dropping the stylus into the steel ring's outer edge.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
Hi Phil,

I use two types of Doc Lito's mats for my SLs and the Millennium Carbon Fiber mat for the TW. With the Millennium, carbon side up just makes the backgrounds a bit more quiet, soft side up and there's some transient dulling. All in all better with a mat especially carbon side up but not what I'd call a huge or revelatory difference.

With the SL1210s however the difference was huge. There was all sorts of rumble and hash from the high torque motor working against the slippery supplied DJ slip mats.

Mis Dos Centavos :)

Jack
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,361
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Manila, Philippines
Hi Phil,

I use two types of Doc Lito's mats for my SLs and the Millennium Carbon Fiber mat for the TW. With the Millennium, carbon side up just makes the backgrounds a bit more quiet, soft side up and there's some transient dulling. All in all better with a mat especially carbon side up but not what I'd call a huge or revelatory difference.

With the SL1210s however the difference was huge. There was all sorts of rumble and hash from the high torque motor working against the slippery supplied DJ slip mats.

Mis Dos Centavos :)

Jack

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the feedback. Good to know they have worked for the better. :)
 

Doctor O

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Jul 31, 2012
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There are basically two schools of though on this. 1) Decoupling the record from the platter, 2) dampening the record vibrations which usually involves the dampening of the record and stronger coupling to the platter. the former is mostly to prevent platter vibrations from affecting the record and playback. The latter to dampen the record vibrations caused by the needle tracking the record.

something like the Ringmat supports decoupling. but unless the platter is excessively resoanant, I find this to brighten the playback elevating the mids/treble to almost the point of brightness. Bass is reduced also.

On the other hand, dampening mats (Millenium, boston audio, copper, etc) tend to act like tone controls. while they perform better overall in my opinion, the trick is to find one that has a flat frequency response but provides all of the benefits of dampening. so far, a good copper platter coupled to the platter (like the TW acustic) or a leather mat perform the best. I have tried Millenium and Boston Audio. I think leather mats are highly cost effective and are pretty neutral.

Andrew
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,361
5,471
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Manila, Philippines
There are basically two schools of though on this. 1) Decoupling the record from the platter, 2) dampening the record vibrations which usually involves the dampening of the record and stronger coupling to the platter. the former is mostly to prevent platter vibrations from affecting the record and playback. The latter to dampen the record vibrations caused by the needle tracking the record.

something like the Ringmat supports decoupling. but unless the platter is excessively resoanant, I find this to brighten the playback elevating the mids/treble to almost the point of brightness. Bass is reduced also.

On the other hand, dampening mats (Millenium, boston audio, copper, etc) tend to act like tone controls. while they perform better overall in my opinion, the trick is to find one that has a flat frequency response but provides all of the benefits of dampening. so far, a good copper platter coupled to the platter (like the TW acustic) or a leather mat perform the best. I have tried Millenium and Boston Audio. I think leather mats are highly cost effective and are pretty neutral.

Andrew

Good to know and thanks for sharing. :)
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Doctor O explains it well.

I recently have had a bit of experience. SME uses a screw on clamp that basically bends the record down on a precision cut cork mat.

The threads on my SME puck stripped and fell out a couple of months ago. This makes the record rattle on the precision cut mat, or without the spindle washer, the record does not go down to touch the precision cut cork mat evenly. Basically, a stripped puck renders the clamp/mat system kaput as a unified system.

I was never comfortable with the high forces used in the SME clamping system, and the stripped puck has sort of borne that out.

In order to get something working again, I put a piece of felt under the record, with the puck passive. I liked it a lot. It tilted the register more toward the midrange without challenging detail, and seemed to give a bit better bass resolution.
It also did not require the screwing down of the puck against the record.

I now use a piece of 1.5mm leather for a mat, and use a small felt circle under the passive puck. That makes it a "leather on cork" mat with a small felt damper for the puck.

I really like it, it makes everything sound more analog then ever.

However, I can't recommend a mat for SME turntables. SME is just too formidable in its reputation for precision, and one would breach its recommendations and customary clamping system with caution, but I am keeping the mat system.

There is also the possibility that anything "new" might seem better just because it is "new", but I have had the mat long enough to regard it as a keeper.

From what I have read about mats, there is no general rule. Every turrntable/mat configuration is unique, and requires experimentation. There is danger from both underdamping and overdamping, and puck/mat combinations seem to need to be worked out on an individual basis.
 

Doctor O

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Jul 31, 2012
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cjfrbw,

Interesting feedback and I agree that it is tough to recommend one solution for all. Also, in my comment of trying to achieve a flat fequency response, I essentially was trying to say (which you did a good job of) avoid being underdamped or overdamped.

Incidentally, I'm also using a leather mat which is ~1.5mm thick. I haven't experimented much with record weights but I'll have to do this as ultimately it does help to improve coupling of the redcord to the mat and the mat to the platter. I like the felt idea as that could possibly be a way to prevent the weight from having an over-dampening effect.
 

Doctor O

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Jul 31, 2012
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Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
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I'm not trying to stir up the pot or anything, but...

I sincerely believe that turntables should be designed in a way that requires zero tweaks, especially tweaks involving mats because the interface surface is the single most important aspect of a turntable, in my honest opinion. That aspect should be right at the outset. Otherwise, the designer flat-out failed.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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I have heard good things about Zanden mat. I'm not a vinyl guy at all...but heard good things from those who are.
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,325
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Pleasanton, CA
I'm not trying to stir up the pot or anything, but...

I sincerely believe that turntables should be designed in a way that requires zero tweaks, especially tweaks involving mats because the interface surface is the single most important aspect of a turntable, in my honest opinion. That aspect should be right at the outset. Otherwise, the designer flat-out failed.

I think you are correct. However, when there is leeway to manipulate the sound and the manufacturer's intent, the restless audiophile will blunder forward in spite of all odds.

I really like my mat result, I am convinced it helped, but there is enough subjective variation in user impressions to nullify my result from the manufacturer's stand point.

"Mat rolling" and "tube rolling" and tweaking go onward and upward (downward?).
 

andi

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2012
97
5
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Germany
I'm not trying to stir up the pot or anything, but...

I sincerely believe that turntables should be designed in a way that requires zero tweaks. Otherwise, the designer flat-out failed.

You are right.

But no designer has an influence on the "tweaks" a customer apply.
I tried several mats and different belts on my table. Each "tweak" changed something to the better, I thought.

After several month I went back to the original design. It is way better than the tweaked one.

Andreas
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,361
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Manila, Philippines
I tried several mats and different belts on my table. Each "tweak" changed something to the better, I thought.

Andreas

Hi Andreas,

Good thing you brought up trying different belts. Do they sound different? Lately, I bought a brand new belt from VPI for my HW-19MKII and I couldn't believe my findings that this new belt made the overall sound of my system 'bright' and 'hard'. Since I couldn't believe that a belt can cause such change as I never experienced this before, I tried putting back my old belt and the sound was more mellow and smooth. And I did the swap 3 times and it produced the same result. My old belt, also from VPI was a round white O-ring type belt while the new one is black O-ring, also from VPI. Until now, I am still using the old one as it sounds more to my liking. I wonder if they are not using the same material which explains the difference in their 'sound'.
 

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