How to properly listen to a record?

I have my turntable in another isolated room. That's an extreme, but as far as I know, the ultimate way. Anytime you have the turntable in the same room, there are always airborne vibrations. A Herzon can take care of mechanical vibrations, but does nothing with airborne vibrations.

Bruce B said:

I have my turntable in another isolated room. That's an extreme, but as far as I know, the ultimate way. Anytime you have the turntable in the same room, there are always airborne vibrations. A Herzon can take care of mechanical vibrations, but does nothing with airborne vibrations.

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well.....

first off; there is more noise in any environment than just music feedback, so a tt even in a separate room still is exposed to a certain amount of noise. consider the case of the electron microscope in a quiet lab, the Herzan still makes a significant difference in earth and ambient noise reduction even in a decoupled, engineered, isolated room.....obviously that is it's reason for existing. and when making rips with headphones the Herzan made a positive difference compared to passive decoupling.

second; the Herzan absolutely attenuates any airborn noise to the plinth and rack. it's easy to clap your hands next to the Herzan and observe the effect on the visual graphic display which displays noise that gets dealt with. it does not matter where the noise comes from; if it's detected by the sensors then it gets attenuated. I'd grant that the armwand itself at the non-bearing end, to the degree that the airborn feedback might have an effect on it, would not be much helped by the Herzan. I know that recordings don't reveal any audible feedback when A/B'd with the speakers muted and not muted. I'm sure there is a difference on a technical level but doubtful there it would be audible to any significant degree.

I do have hundreds of wonderful 2xdsd vinyl rips where I can hear where the Herzan would have made some difference.

nothing is 100% effective in eliminating noise, whether the Herzan or a separate room......todays top level vinyl playback is so sensitive. but I agree that a separate room is one great solution. personally; I simply play too much vinyl for that logistically to be a choice. but for the occasional mastering situations I can see the why it works for you. there are always trade-offs for every decision we make.

RE: airborne nasties

Sometimes, repositioning a turntable a few inches one way or another can make an audible difference. At one show where I participated, the people in the adjoining room were playing music loudly, and the thin hotel wall was behaving like a diaphragm. Lowering the turntable only a couple of inches made a dramatic difference that anyone could hear. Your wall at home matters, too.

A lot also depends on the cartridge/tonearm combination. Some handle airborne influences better than others. The caveat is that the more friction-free setups seem to be more sensitive to those influences.

For someone that listens to a lot of records, locating the TT in another room is a bit extreme. The biggest problem is missing the first part of the first track on each side. Then you also need to use a longer interconnect. If you have a closet really close to your preamp that would mitigate those problems. Barring that possibility locating the TT in a bass null away from any direct energy from the speaker is second best. Of course a Herzan can't hurt either. My preference is for non suspended floors if possible.

I hit the suction button. It turns my 150g Lps into 35,150g LPs. LOL.

Acoustic enclosures coupled with active isolation may be the best of both worlds and avoids the inconvenience and distance of a second room as long as you have the room near your rack in the main listening room.
http://www.herzan.com/products/acoustic-enclosures/enclosure-features.html

Mike Lavigne said:

second; the Herzan absolutely attenuates any airborn noise to the plinth and rack. it's easy to clap your hands next to the Herzan and observe the effect on the visual graphic display which displays noise that gets dealt with. it does not matter where the noise comes from; if it's detected by the sensors then it gets attenuated..

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Yes, I observe the same thing. A good clap of the hands near the TT initiates active isolation on the table stable. The 3 axis graphical display clearly shows the incoming acoustic vibration.

rockitman said:

Yes, I observe the same thing. A good clap of the hands near the TT initiates active isolation on the table stable. The 3 axis graphical display clearly shows the incoming acoustic vibration.

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Christian,

It only shows your table, like any diva, loves and acknowledges applause ...

Bruce B, maybe I'm not thinking straight, but how is it possible to drop the stylus on the lp in one room, and get back to the listening room in time to hear the first chord? On some of my lp's, music is instantaneous on needle drop. And if the room is just off the main listening room or connected, there is no way the tt isn't being influenced by the main room.
Our hobby is OCD enough w/out having to run from one room to another !

spiritofmusic said:

Bruce B, maybe I'm not thinking straight, but how is it possible to drop the stylus on the lp in one room, and get back to the listening room in time to hear the first chord? On some of my lp's, music is instantaneous on needle drop. And if the room is just off the main listening room or connected, there is no way the tt isn't being influenced by the main room.
Our hobby is OCD enough w/out having to run from one room to another !

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Guess I'm OCD then. The rooms are totally decoupled from one another and the house itself. Even the cement slab has been cut between the rooms, so there is total isolation. As for one room to the other, I can start the TT and get in my seat in about 6 seconds. No big deal. What I actually do is start the recording process and then drop the needle. Here I can listen to the transfer without any degradation from how far I turn up the volume!

Bruce, whoever said music listening is bad for fitness? Not an option for me, I only run when I fall asleep to be awakened by the stylus grinding in the inner grooves ! Once was enough .

While it sounds like a plausible option, I wouldn't give isolating my turntable into a separate room any consideration. First off I don't like the idea of missing the first few notes, although I may not be positioned yet, and second....I didn't pay what I did for my turntable to hide it. If that means giving up quality (which I'm not sold on) so be it.

my Basis Ovation is inside a thick walled MDF box with a 17kg 0,4 inch thick acrylic dustcover
what about putting needle in groove and remotestart TT motor?
best
Leif

Bruce B said:

Guess I'm OCD then. The rooms are totally decoupled from one another and the house itself. Even the cement slab has been cut between the rooms, so there is total isolation. As for one room to the other, I can start the TT and get in my seat in about 6 seconds. No big deal. What I actually do is start the recording process and then drop the needle. Here I can listen to the transfer without any degradation from how far I turn up the volume!

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I think for Bruce it's a good solution. he's going to edit the final result anyway. my comments about logistics where mostly about that you tend to do stuff that is easy. I want to listen to lots of vinyl and so the back and forth, opening and closing a door, etc. etc. would simply get in the way of the vibe of vinyl. plus.....I like to look over and see the vinyl playing and enjoy the 'art' of the tt in my room.

no doubt that in Bruce's case, he has optimized the whole 'other room' vinyl approach and doing it for the right reasons.

Johnny Vinyl said:

While it sounds like a plausible option, I wouldn't give isolating my turntable into a separate room any consideration. First off I don't like the idea of missing the first few notes, although I may not be positioned yet, and second....I didn't pay what I did for my turntable to hide it. If that means giving up quality (which I'm not sold on) so be it.

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Several years ago I was concerned with airborne vibrations and decided to try and isolate the turntable. It was already in a 2'x2'x4' cabinet with a 4" wall at the back, 1" plywood shelves at tip and bottom and 1/4" plywood at left and right sides. The front is open.

After considerable research on sound proofing material I specialized 1" think very thick foam and proceeded to attach it to the five sides. I then cut a 1" plywood door, attached the foam, and temporarily attached it to the cabinet to completely seal the turntable. The big problem with attenuating noise are the low frequencies, say under 300Hz. Certainly 1" foam is not going to help much.

I played the first record and there was quite a dramatic change in sound. I was excited an started making plans for a more permanent isolation chamber, however, after a few more days of listening I realized the sound was unbalanced. What could have caused this.

I got out my mic and REW and did some sweeps with the mic resting on the turntable with the temporary door open. I then did the same sweep with the door closed. There was a considerable change between the two sweeps. Door closed measurement was far lower at over 1000kHz, almost fully attenuated. However, a severe resonance had been created below 100Hz (don't remember the exact frequency) undoubtedly caused by creating a sealed box. This resonance must have fed into the turntable and changed the frequency spectrum.

I think it is very difficult to build a sound proof box, unless you are Herzan. I would prefer Bruce's solution or a sound proof area built into the listening room. Today's gear is so incredibly sensitive that I think it is underestimated how airborne noise will affect playback.

My table sits on a Black Diamond Source shelf which sits on 2'x'2'x4' 2" thick maple shelf which is levitated by six Newport airpods. I use a considerable amount of specialized plastic materials as well as Isodamp for additional vibration control, so I am reasonably happy with the control of floor borne vibration.