Advice on 3 different system combination

Thieliste · Jan 1, 2015

Hi guys, Here are 3 different systems that i've put up together from reasonably priced to very expensive.
The speakers don't change, the source is only network streaming for high res files at the moment.
Room size is 15'x21' long.

System n° 1 : ASR Emitter II Exclusive
Ayon S5 network player
Thiel CS 3.7

System n° 2 : Karan KAS 600 stereo amp
Karan KAL Reference MK3 preamp
Ayon S5 network player
Thiel CS 3.7

System n° 3 : Karan KAS 600 stereo amp
VAC Signature MKIIa preamp
MSB Diamond DAC IV Plus with network renderer option
Thiel CS 3.7

Please comment if you have any experience with this gear.
Would system n° 3 be a significant upgrade compared to system n° 1 or would the price difference not be worth it ?
Any advice, comments and gear suggestions are welcome.

Barry2013 · Jan 1, 2015

Hi there.
Have you considered the Vitus SIA 025 integrated amp?
It really is superb. Don't be deterred by the quoted 25 watts class A output. It's the most powerful 25 I have ever come across!

GuillaumeB · Jan 1, 2015

Barry2013 said:
Hi there.
Have you considered the Vitus SIA 025 integrated amp?
It really is superb. Don't be deterred by the quoted 25 watts class A output. It's the most powerful 25 I have ever come across!

I concur. I borrowed one for a few weeks and had it feeding my Wilson Sasha 2s. Couldn't quite believe how good it sounded. Lovely dense soundstage and very musical (in combination with a Vitus MPD-201 DAC).

Guillaume

Barry2013 · Jan 1, 2015

There is a used Vitus SS 101 for sale on Audiogon for $12,800 which would work well in your system.

Thieliste · Jan 1, 2015

Barry2013 said:
There is a used Vitus SS 101 for sale on Audiogon for $12,800 which would work well in your system.

I was going to ask about the SS 101 because i've also seen one used for a reasonable price.
I'm not very familiar with Vitus yet, last november i listened to the SIA-025 and the SM-011 monos with Tidal Agoria SE, the source was all Esoteric.
I wonder how Vitus would pair with my Thiel CS 3.7
Thiel's are very power hungry and need to be paired with high current smooth, liquid sounding amps.
So far i only tried the ASR with my speakers and the result was amazing.

Barry2013 · Jan 1, 2015

Thieliste said:
I was going to ask about the SS 101 because i've also seen one used for a reasonable price.
I'm not very familiar with Vitus yet, last november i listened to the SIA-025 and the SM-011 monos with Tidal Agoria SE, the source was all Esoteric.
I wonder how Vitus would pair with my Thiel CS 3.7
Thiel's are very power hungry and need to be paired with high current smooth, liquid sounding amps.
So far i only tried the ASR with my speakers and the result was amazing.

I don't think power would be a problem with the SS101 which is rated at 50 watts Class A per channel, or the 025
There are a couple of good reviews of the 101 on the Vitus audio website which you might like to check out.

Thieliste · Jan 1, 2015

What about Spectral audio ?
Any of you guys familiar with this brand ?

asiufy · Jan 1, 2015

Thieliste,

Vitus is an excellent choice for your speakers, but so are the other brands you've picked. The ASR is indeed very impressive, not only with your Thiels

As for the MSB, the network renderer is not yet available for the Diamond DAC. That might change in a few days though, at CES... Currently, it's only out for the (cheaper) MSB Analog DAC.

alexandre

Thieliste · Jan 2, 2015

asiufy said:
Thieliste,

Vitus is an excellent choice for your speakers, but so are the other brands you've picked. The ASR is indeed very impressive, not only with your Thiels
As for the MSB, the network renderer is not yet available for the Diamond DAC. That might change in a few days though, at CES... Currently, it's only out for the (cheaper) MSB Analog DAC.

alexandre

Yes i know the renderer for Diamond DAC IV is coming out in 2015.

Audioseduction · Jan 2, 2015

Why have 3 systems in one room? Thats like having 3 TVs in 1 room.

asiufy · Jan 2, 2015

My understanding is that he'd chose one of the three...

alexandre

LL21 · Jan 2, 2015

Thieliste said:
I was going to ask about the SS 101 because i've also seen one used for a reasonable price.
I'm not very familiar with Vitus yet, last november i listened to the SIA-025 and the SM-011 monos with Tidal Agoria SE, the source was all Esoteric.
I wonder how Vitus would pair with my Thiel CS 3.7
Thiel's are very power hungry and need to be paired with high current smooth, liquid sounding amps.
So far i only tried the ASR with my speakers and the result was amazing.

Hi Thieliste. I am not particularly familiar with your components...but from what i have read and heard myself, they are all excellent choices. My recollection of Thiels is that they love power, the respond well to it...and my favorite amps with them were big brute, Class A amps (Krell FPB 650 for the bigger ones) and Forte 4 (50watts Class A) with the smaller ones...you can tell i last auditioned Thiels a LONG time ago.

That said, i have heard some newer generation Thiels, and my sense is: choice 1 and 3 both seem great to me...i wonder actually more about whether you might run Option 1 with the MSB digital if you are looking to save a bit of money? Would it save you money...depending on the pricing you can get for your amp/preamp?

Thieliste · Jan 2, 2015

Audioseduction said:
Why have 3 systems in one room? Thats like having 3 TVs in 1 room.

I don't have a single system yet, only the speakers i own for the moment.
I plan on building the best system possible for these speakers and these 3 possible systems are suggestions.
Other suggestion are welcome.
Obviously there will be only 1 at the end.
It's just that it is too difficult to listen to all this gear since dealers don't have all brands available.
Therefore i need help on this forum.
Thank.

Thieliste · Jan 2, 2015

LL21 said:
Hi Thieliste. I am not particularly familiar with your components...but from what i have read and heard myself, they are all excellent choices. My recollection of Thiels is that they love power, the respond well to it...and my favorite amps with them were big brute, Class A amps (Krell FPB 650 for the bigger ones) and Forte 4 (50watts Class A) with the smaller ones...you can tell i last auditioned Thiels a LONG time ago.

That said, i have heard some newer generation Thiels, and my sense is: choice 1 and 3 both seem great to me...i wonder actually more about whether you might run Option 1 with the MSB digital if you are looking to save a bit of money? Would it save you money...depending on the pricing you can get for your amp/preamp?

Well the MSB Diamond DAC IV is very expensive here in Europe around 36K i would say with the renderer.
The ASR can be found demo for 10K in Europe.

George K · Jan 2, 2015

Thieliste Karan are better amps than ASR IMHO
More powerful for sure and will do justice to your Thiels.
Both your amps pick may not be the last word in resolution and detail.

Regarding network renderer it's much beter to choose any Aurender, especially the all new N100 for network streaming with caching playback. Much much more advanced technology and superior sound than any Ayon or other integrated renderer.
Aurender is upgrading constantly and the support is sublime. So many people working in order to push the sound quality and ease of use for this magnificent network players /streamers.
Your dac selection is pretty good. In that price why not a dCS Vivaldi?

JackD201 · Jan 2, 2015

I like tubes in at least one place in the system and I like the luxury of headroom, I therefore vote on option 3 due to my biases

asiufy · Jan 3, 2015

George K said:
Thieliste Karan are better amps than ASR IMHO
More powerful for sure and will do justice to your Thiels.
Both your amps pick may not be the last word in resolution and detail.

Regarding network renderer it's much beter to choose any Aurender, especially the all new N100 for network streaming with caching playback. Much much more advanced technology and superior sound than any Ayon or other integrated renderer.
Aurender is upgrading constantly and the support is sublime. So many people working in order to push the sound quality and ease of use for this magnificent network players /streamers.
Your dac selection is pretty good. In that price why not a dCS Vivaldi?

I don't agree on the ASR x Karan thing (but of course!

), but I agree that neither are the last word in resolution and detail. Maybe one of the mid-range Vitus will be a step up.
A good option, IMHO, would be either one of the darTZeel integrateds. The new one will have the streamer built-in, while the old(er) one has more power, and a phono stage built-in.
As for the suggestion of the Aurender, in my experience, it's generally better to avoid an external interface/cable. So, with the internal MSB Renderer, you avoid using USB, SPDIF, AES/EBU, whatever, and go direct to the DAC/clock. That in itself will give you a performance boost.

alexandre

Thieliste · Jan 3, 2015

My Karan dealer is bringing in Spectral Audio for the first time in 2015 therefore i should be able to A/B a Karan reference system against a Spectral reference system.
Pretty rare to be able to audition these 2 brands at the same dealer.

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