Poor Allnic Dubious honour of worst measuring DAC ever for Stereophile

awsmone · Dec 24, 2014

http://www.stereophile.com/content/allnic-d-5000-dht-da-processor-manufacturers-comment

rockitman · Dec 24, 2014

awsmone said:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/allnic-d-5000-dht-da-processor-manufacturers-comment

The real question is, what does it sound like ? I am glad my stereo life isn't a slave to measurmemts that in many cases fail to define what sounds good and what doesn't.

amirm · Dec 24, 2014

If a wheel has fallen off the car, hard to imagine it would ride well

.

Strange that the manufacturer did not provide measurements post replacement of tubes.

Jeffy · Dec 25, 2014

The frequency response curve is horrible, after 5K it takes a nose dive. I'm sorry a DAC this expensive should have and extended frequency response at least to 20K. I would never buy this unit because of this. I don't want a tone control.

Elberoth · Dec 26, 2014

rockitman said:
The real question is, what does it sound like ? I am glad my stereo life isn't a slave to measurmemts that in many cases fail to define what sounds good and what doesn't.

I agree that often there is no full correlation between measurements and sonics. But in this case, measurements just show a badly engineered product.

No tube replacement will cure its digital domain issues.

Geardaddy · Dec 26, 2014

I am sure this will prove to be much to do about nothing. Allnic appears to be a quality company and will rectify any "issues." The true test is listening and duration of ownership. Audio Note dacs measure poorly but somehow seem to inhabit systems for longer than most. Furthermore, vinyl and tape still sounds better than digital IMO (and for better and for worse I am child of the digital generation and a prisoner of that format). At the recent Hong Kong AE show, the Trinity dac was in use and when the room switched back to vinyl several people, including manufacturers involved with the room, exclaimed that the "music" had returned. The Trinity dac is considered one of the top digital dogs on the planet at present. What does that tell us?

dallasjustice · Dec 26, 2014

Purite Audio said:
NOS deigns exhibit far more distortion and characteristically have bass and treble roll off , which some listeners prefer!
Keith.

NOS DACs do have rolled off HF. However, LF issues aren't related to whether the DAC has an OS filter. Aliasing is a strictly HF issue. It's likely a poor output stage which is responsible for poor LF performance.

Stereophile doesn't base their recommendations and awards on measurements. The PS Audio Directstream would never be recommended based on its poor measurements as well. The Playback Designs MPS-5 is also recommended and didn't exhibit DR to brag about.

It's funny how the "purist" recites the refrain "it's all about the music", yet selects gear which doesn't give the listener a chance to hear the music in the first place.

I've never enjoyed listening to music from a room/system which didn't measure well. However, good measurements are only a prerequisite for musical enjoyment. Not all gear which measures well sounds good.

PeterA · Dec 26, 2014

Geardaddy said:
At the recent Hong Kong AE show, the Trinity dac was in use and when the room switched back to vinyl several people, including manufacturers involved with the room, exclaimed that the "music" had returned... What does that tell us?

What we analog only guys already know.

Geardaddy · Dec 26, 2014

PeterA said:
What we analog only guys already know.

Ha! I hate you and your kind.

Notice how the digital world still pays subconscious homage to your blessed medium of choice with their description of SOTA sound as "analog..."

microstrip · Dec 26, 2014

Geardaddy said:
I am sure this will prove to be much to do about nothing. Allnic appears to be a quality company and will rectify any "issues." The true test is listening and duration of ownership. Audio Note dacs measure poorly but somehow seem to inhabit systems for longer than most.

No one who is posting in this thread has experience with this DAC, we are not debating anything solid, as the possibility that the measurements were carried in a defective unit and the listening was carried in the unit working properly. While they wait for the needed Stereophile followup's that will take a few months , those seriously interested in this DAC matters can turn to the thread at Audiogon on Albert Porter system.

Geardaddy said:
Furthermore, vinyl and tape still sounds better than digital IMO (and for better and for worse I am child of the digital generation and a prisoner of that format). At the recent Hong Kong AE show, the Trinity dac was in use and when the room switched back to vinyl several people, including manufacturers involved with the room, exclaimed that the "music" had returned. The Trinity dac is considered one of the top digital dogs on the planet at present. What does that tell us?

This tells me mostly that the system to demo the Trinity was not properly assembled. Any competent demonstrator should have been able to tune the system and choose recordings to avoid such ridicule situation. Just MHO.

awsmone · Dec 26, 2014

lol

Good story

My friend is a bit of a joker with amazing system

He had a sacd and record recorded off same master

He put the vinyl record on the tt and many people exclaimed " ah vinyl" finally

He then turned the turntable off and the music kept playing... it was the sacd lol

People are capable of great self delusion

amirm · Dec 26, 2014

Geardaddy said:
At the recent Hong Kong AE show, the Trinity dac was in use and when the room switched back to vinyl several people, including manufacturers involved with the room, exclaimed that the "music" had returned. The Trinity dac is considered one of the top digital dogs on the planet at present. What does that tell us?

That "we want our women with lipstick" as Ki once told me as he explained why a tape copy of SACD sounded so good.

JackD201 · Dec 26, 2014

Geardaddy said:
Ha! I hate you and your kind.

Notice how the digital world still pays subconscious homage to your blessed medium of choice with their description of SOTA sound as "analog..."

Well wouldn't that be the full measure of success? The process is analog to digital then back to analog after all.

Geardaddy · Dec 26, 2014

microstrip said:
No one who is posting in this thread has experience with this DAC, we are not debating anything solid, as the possibility that the measurements were carried in a defective unit and the listening was carried in the unit working properly. While they wait for the needed Stereophile followup's that will take a few months , those seriously interested in this DAC matters can turn to the thread at Audiogon on Albert Porter system.

Then what is the point of this thread exactly? Providing a philosophical counterpoint seems a logical response to me.

microstrip said:
This tells me mostly that the system to demo the Trinity was not properly assembled. Any competent demonstrator should have been able to tune the system and choose recordings to avoid such ridicule situation. Just MHO.

Maybe, but that would presuppose incompetence. Given the caliber of the presenters, unlikely. They are not haphazard cheeseballs like many of us....

rockitman · Dec 26, 2014

Geardaddy said:
Ha! I hate you and your kind.

Notice how the digital world still pays subconscious homage to your blessed medium of choice with their description of SOTA sound as "analog..."

lol...well said. Digital is a compromise when it comes to playing back analog mastered material. A $200K DAC can't change that...

Joe Whip · Dec 27, 2014

I fully realize that a product from even the best of manufacturers can have problems. However, the fact that this manufacturer claimed that the poor measurements were due to bad tubes and then just sells the thing without sending it back to Stereophile for a follow-up tells me all I need to know about the company. They probably didn't send it back because they all measure that way. They knew it and knew Stereophile wouldn't want any one other than the review sample returned. From their end, problem solved. I am not a tube guy but why use such an esoteric tube? One goes bad and you need to have a replacement sent from South Korea? What if they run out of tubes?

Joe Whip · Dec 27, 2014

For a compromise, the disc I am playing back through my computer and DAC sounds pretty damn good.

Dimfer · Dec 27, 2014

dallasjustice said:
NOS DACs do have rolled off HF. However, LF issues aren't related to whether the DAC has an OS filter. Aliasing is a strictly HF issue. It's likely a poor output stage which is responsible for poor LF performance.

Stereophile doesn't base their recommendations and awards on measurements. The PS Audio Directstream would never be recommended based on its poor measurements as well. The Playback Designs MPS-5 is also recommended and didn't exhibit DR to brag about.

It's funny how the "purist" recites the refrain "it's all about the music", yet selects gear which doesn't give the listener a chance to hear the music in the first place.

I've never enjoyed listening to music from a room/system which didn't measure well. However, good measurements are only a prerequisite for musical enjoyment. Not all gear which measures well sounds good.

AFAIK, this had been rectified by firmware update 1.2.1 a long time ago. It is one of Stereophile's joint digital product of the year 2014

wisnon · Dec 27, 2014

microstrip said:
No one who is posting in this thread has experience with this DAC, we are not debating anything solid, as the possibility that the measurements were carried in a defective unit and the listening was carried in the unit working properly. While they wait for the needed Stereophile followup's that will take a few months , those seriously interested in this DAC matters can turn to the thread at Audiogon on Albert Porter system.

This tells me mostly that the system to demo the Trinity was not properly assembled. Any competent demonstrator should have been able to tune the system and choose recordings to avoid such ridicule situation. Just MHO.

Actually we do know something. Ketcham on another forum sent out his Allnic Dac to be tested locally and got essentially the same result as Stereophile. Still, he says his Dac soiunds good to him.

wisnon · Dec 27, 2014

Joe Whip said:
I fully realize that a product from even the best of manufacturers can have problems. However, the fact that this manufacturer claimed that the poor measurements were due to bad tubes and then just sells the thing without sending it back to Stereophile for a follow-up tells me all I need to know about the company. They probably didn't send it back because they all measure that way. They knew it and knew Stereophile wouldn't want any one other than the review sample returned. From their end, problem solved. I am not a tube guy but why use such an esoteric tube? One goes bad and you need to have a replacement sent from South Korea? What if they run out of tubes?

Its a tiny DHT and they likely used it because they were afraid of the big bottle DHTs which are MUCH harder to tame. However, they now dont have the big bottle magic and users are denied the fun of tube rolling (which has a big impact on the sound presentation).

Poor Allnic Dubious honour of worst measuring DAC ever for Stereophile

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