What are your thoughts on anti-skating?

f1eng

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2014
128
9
248
Oxfordshire
We could all forget about what we think we know about anti skate, offsett, geometry and try a ViV rigid float

The idea that such vast tracking error is not audible is a bit shocking. I have obviously never tried this sort of thing since arms without tracking error reduction in the geometry have so far only been on DJ decks.
I find it difficult to believe this is not audible. The phase error, distortion and loss of high frequency information will be considerable, but maybe this is the sort of euphonic distortion some like, and IME many enthusiasts prefer a rolled off treble to flat.
So maybe it is audible but preferred by some???
 

perart1

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2012
118
42
935
Cheltenham
The idea that such vast tracking error is not audible is a bit shocking. I have obviously never tried this sort of thing since arms without tracking error reduction in the geometry have so far only been on DJ decks.
I find it difficult to believe this is not audible. The phase error, distortion and loss of high frequency information will be considerable, but maybe this is the sort of euphonic distortion some like, and IME many enthusiasts prefer a rolled off treble to flat.
So maybe it is audible but preferred by some???


I agree and everything that I now about arm geometry, set up etc tells me you are right. But The ViV does not throw everything out with the bathwater; it does not deny the existence of the variables you mention, it just 'says' that we have the set up priorities the wrong way round. Sometimes there are too many variables to be able to plot a causality path.
 

f1eng

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2014
128
9
248
Oxfordshire
I agree and everything that I now about arm geometry, set up etc tells me you are right. But The ViV does not throw everything out with the bathwater; it does not deny the existence of the variables you mention, it just 'says' that we have the set up priorities the wrong way round. Sometimes there are too many variables to be able to plot a causality path.

Well there are always compromises one has to make but those are pretty unconventional ones!
Without listening I would't like to judge and I suspect this concept will have different effects with different cartridges.
 

KlausR.

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2010
291
29
333
Hi,

The idea that such vast tracking error is not audible is a bit shocking.

Informal listening tests (the papers's author over in-ear phones using ABX, me over my system) have resulted in a threshold of 11.7 degrees, above which distortion becomes audible with the test signals chosen (tracks from EBU SQAM CD).

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15119

If you're a registered member of the Vinyl Engine it can be dowloaded from the articles section, otherwise mail me for a copy.

Klaus
 

perart1

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2012
118
42
935
Cheltenham
so if we can measure it we must be able to her it?
 

KlausR.

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2010
291
29
333
Hi,

so if we can measure it we must be able to her it?

Definitely not! That's what perception thresholds are for, at tracking error angles below 11.7 degrees distortion is present, you can measure it, but you can't hear it. In my book this is good news because this particular chapter tracking error distortion is closed, no need to worry about longer tonearms, linear tracking arm or arms like the Swiss Thales.

Klaus
 

perart1

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2012
118
42
935
Cheltenham
Ah.. Thanks Klaus for clarifying. I misunderstood you

Peter
 

hifistan

New Member
Jul 14, 2016
40
0
0
I have not used it in years as I have enough to worry about now. I may be missing something but as long as I don't know about about it I can pretend that it is not there.
 

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