General question about Turntables and Tonearms.

Which is your preferred purchase option?


  • Total voters
    19

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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Calgary, AB
I'm in the market for a new turntable and tonearm and there are 2 ways I could approach this (see poll).

Which option would you choose and why?

EDIT: My budget for this is $5,000 CAD ($4,300 USD)
 
Last edited:

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Better turntable/Lesser tonearm - the turntable is usually the larger investment, and I want to make sure that the investment is well-spent. If you get a lesser turntable, the tonearm would probably not be able to perform as well and the investment there may be a waste - until you spend much more money and improve the turntable.

Also, there are many tonearms that for less money perform pretty well. I can't say the same for turntables. I find more of a difference between turntables than between tonearms. But that is only in my humble preference. What I listen for and what others listen for can be completely different because while we may have the same ears, our brains processing the signal are completely different.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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Calgary, AB
Better turntable/Lesser tonearm - the turntable is usually the larger investment, and I want to make sure that the investment is well-spent. If you get a lesser turntable, the tonearm would probably not be able to perform as well and the investment there may be a waste - until you spend much more money and improve the turntable.

Also, there are many tonearms that for less money perform pretty well. I can't say the same for turntables. I find more of a difference between turntables than between tonearms. But that is only in my humble preference. What I listen for and what others listen for can be completely different because while we may have the same ears, our brains processing the signal are completely different.

That's an interesting comment. Surely as there are tonearms that perform above their pricepoint, wouldn't this hold true for turntables as well?
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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I think this equation changes as you increase your overall budget.

at the modest to medium end of things, and specifically in the price range you are talking about, I completely agree with Gary that the tt itself will be the dominant aspect of the total performance. and also that a better tt will allow for upgrades to an arm and cartridge to yield benefits.

it simply takes a certain level of engineering and build quality to solve the big challenges of building a tt that spins correctly and controls noise adequately.

however; as you go to the next level of tt's; my opinion and experience is that the arm will start to become the more dominant aspect and limitation of the overall performance. there is no clear line where this starts to happen, but happen it does. and like anything, performance on tt's or arms is not always linear with price points.....but there is some correlation to getting what you pay for.
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
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Alto, NM
You might want to contact Music Direct or Audio Advisors.

They have some options in your price range and "may" offer a return option. I'd verify the return option before pursuing.

Good luck.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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I'm guessing then that you feel that (as an example) a 80/20 or 75/25 split is preferred over something like 60/40 split?

thedudeabides: Unfortunately, I'm in Canada....buying from the U.S. when you consider shipping and exchange rates, plus a potential ding with additional duties would make that almost impossible. But thank you for the suggestion nonetheless.
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
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930
That's an interesting comment. Surely as there are tonearms that perform above their pricepoint, wouldn't this hold true for turntables as well?

Yes, in both cases. You are often stepping into vintage waters with those choices, however. Whether new or old, the difficulty comes when you try separate reputation from hype, price from performance, bling from solid principles, etc. That list of qualifiers goes on forever. The best scenario is to hear them all, but it would take a lifetime, but even then there would be dozens of unheard possibilities with new ones showing up frequently.

Gary is right, however. It is easier to find a really good tonearm for moderate money than it is a turntable.

I suppose that's why audio has an endless upgrade path.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Gary is certainly right...... if you put $2k in an arm upgrade, what will $2k more in a TT get you?? Not much I'm afraid....
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Yes, in both cases. You are often stepping into vintage waters with those choices, however. Whether new or old, the difficulty comes when you try separate reputation from hype, price from performance, bling from solid principles, etc. That list of qualifiers goes on forever. The best scenario is to hear them all, but it would take a lifetime, but even then there would be dozens of unheard possibilities with new ones showing up frequently.

Gary is right, however. It is easier to find a really good tonearm for moderate money than it is a turntable.

I suppose that's why audio has an endless upgrade path.

Read and re-read that truism from Win. It is unfortunately too easy to fall into the "well-reviewed" trap with analog playback.

That is why the conversation got very interesting at that Newport session on choosing a turntable at Steve William's house. The ability to achieve "adequate" using various technologies are all there. However, for some of the technology, digging deeper shows how difficult it is to really achieve perfection. With others, achieving perfection in the technology means that the technology won't work at all.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
I've had one arm that went on 3 of my tables over time with the same cart, cable and phonostage. IME better table/lesser tonearm.
 

Peter Breuninger

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Jul 20, 2010
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I would have both... a better tonearm and a better turntable. The VPI prime fits the bill.

 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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Calgary, AB
I would have both... a better tonearm and a better turntable. The VPI prime fits the bill.


That's actually one the tables I'm considering. I'm moving to Calgary shortly and have already found a dealer that carries VPI, so I hope he has a display for me to audition.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Seattle, WA
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I haven't heard the LSD or Flamenca, but The Funk Firm was another turntable company that made their US debut in the Genesis room at CES. When I had their first Saffire + FX-R, I thought it was one of the most engaging and fun-sounding turntables I had ever heard. Unfortunately, they had quite a bit of quality and fit-n-finish problems. However, that was many years ago and I heard that the quality problems have been fixed.

Do try and check out the LSD. If it's anywhere near as good as the Saffire, it would be a real giant killer of a deck. And as daytona600 says, you'll have a spare $2,300 to spend on LPs. In my book, that is always a positive!!
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I haven't heard the LSD or Flamenca, but The Funk Firm was another turntable company that made their US debut in the Genesis room at CES. When I had their first Saffire + FX-R, I thought it was one of the most engaging and fun-sounding turntables I had ever heard. Unfortunately, they had quite a bit of quality and fit-n-finish problems. However, that was many years ago and I heard that the quality problems have been fixed.

Do try and check out the LSD. If it's anywhere near as good as the Saffire, it would be a real giant killer of a deck. And as daytona600 says, you'll have a spare $2,300 to spend on LPs. In my book, that is always a positive!!

I've just fired off an email to find out who the Canadian distributor is as it's not listed on their site.
 

slowGEEZR

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2010
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Colorado Springs, CO
A friend of mine just purchased one of the new Well Tempered turntables with the new Symmetrex tonearm and I heard major improvements over his modified Rega. Though I must admit, that Funk Firm looks great! Here's a description of the various choices of their turntables...
http://totallywired.co.nz/welltempered.html
wt_amadeus_gta_mk2.jpg
 

flez007

Member Sponsor
Aug 31, 2010
2,915
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435
Mexico City
I think this equation changes as you increase your overall budget.

at the modest to medium end of things, and specifically in the price range you are talking about, I completely agree with Gary that the tt itself will be the dominant aspect of the total performance. and also that a better tt will allow for upgrades to an arm and cartridge to yield benefits.

it simply takes a certain level of engineering and build quality to solve the big challenges of building a tt that spins correctly and controls noise adequately.

however; as you go to the next level of tt's; my opinion and experience is that the arm will start to become the more dominant aspect and limitation of the overall performance. there is no clear line where this starts to happen, but happen it does. and like anything, performance on tt's or arms is not always linear with price points.....but there is some correlation to getting what you pay for.

I agree with Mike here, it was when I moved on to a higher spec tonearm when the potential of my turntable unlashed.
 

astrotoy

VIP/Donor
May 24, 2010
1,547
1,017
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SF Bay Area
The VPI Prime is definitely worth a close look. My TT consultant, Stirling Trayle, set up two of the first Primes, one in the US and one in Europe. He was very impressed by the 3D arm. He also really likes the $1000 Soundsmith Zephyr which was designed for the VPI TT's. The Prime only costs about $500 more than the 3D arm alone. There is no free lunch and the TT is a very fine value, essentially a modified Scout, but you are not getting a $3000 TT and a $3000 arm, for little more than the price of the arm.

Larry

PS. Stirling just set up my new VPI Classic 3 with the 3D tone arm on Friday, with the Zephyr II cartridge. Great, but a little out of your price range.
 

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