Hi looks like both of us are fighting the evil forces of foo boxes. Where did you listen to this Analysis set up, with Sanders? Though one of the speaker looks pretty close to the wall behind. Also I prefer them straight instead of toed in.
Analysis Planar Ribbon Loudspeakers
- Thread starter Big Dog RJ
- Start date
Very definite +1 on the Tune Animas... I've spent quite a few hours listening to the lovely giant Greek horns at Cam's and they are the only speaker that I've ever heard that I could have a long term relationship with after living with Maggie 20.7s.
Sensational presence and so very life like and natural, with an effortless scale like the big Maggie's... lots to love in the big Greek horns and Cam has some very lovely 300b sets to bring them to life.
Hi all,
Please note that French is my mother tongue: I live in Brussels, and I just do my best in English...
I wanted to join this forum that I discovered 2 days ago, after a Google search about "Analysis ribbon panels".
Previously, I owned a pair of Analysis Epsilon, built in 1996 or so. At that time, the brand was distributed and introduced in France and Belgium by YBA. They performed unforgettable Analysis + YBA demos in late nineties.
I had the opportunity to acquire a pair of Omikron 12 years ago. I sold them recently, and upgraded for a pair of Epsilon (build in 2010) since a few months. it's an ex-demo, so it is already broken in.
The new Analysis production (year 2010') largely outperforms the older one.
At present, my 'little' YBA 2 Alpha set give me satisfaction, but the Epsilon deserve better. Therefore I am upgrading for a YBA 1 set (pré + Power, High Current).
As far as dynamics is concerned (as Analysis' dynamics has been praised previously here), it is good *for a panel*. But in absolute terms, they are clearly outperformed by dynamic speakers, I regret to say. Unless my 70W YBA 2 Alpha High Current power amp shoul be qualified as 'under-powered', but I strongly doubt. Power is not all: current is much more important with panel.
A panel has anyway its own sense of the musical performance.
The Analysis diffuse the music into the room like no other. So if you're not always in the sweet spot, but want to have the feling that "they're here", no dynamic speaker can do want they do in this respect.
Now, if you sit IN the sweet spot and LISTEN to music (= you're not doing anything else, not even 'playing' with you smartphone or tablet, to discover a whole composition for instance), I regret the sheer immediacy and dynamics of a Wilson Sasha 2. Remarkable speakers recently discovered. But definitely not the same price...
Generally speaking, I still have to work with the global set-up, as the result are not up to the potential's level.
That's why I bought Jim Smith's book: Get Better sound. Still have to work thoroughfully with it. I also bought the DVD; not yet played it.
Musical regards.
Oliver
______________________
CD Meridian G08.2 - PREAMP YBA 2 Alpha - AMPLIFIER YBA 2 Alpha, High Current - PANELS: Analysis Epsilon (2010) - MAINS: dedicated line on the meter - Akustic Arts active power strip - SPEAKER CABLES Flatline MODULATION Oyaide Tunami Terzo
Please note that French is my mother tongue: I live in Brussels, and I just do my best in English...
I wanted to join this forum that I discovered 2 days ago, after a Google search about "Analysis ribbon panels".
Previously, I owned a pair of Analysis Epsilon, built in 1996 or so. At that time, the brand was distributed and introduced in France and Belgium by YBA. They performed unforgettable Analysis + YBA demos in late nineties.
I had the opportunity to acquire a pair of Omikron 12 years ago. I sold them recently, and upgraded for a pair of Epsilon (build in 2010) since a few months. it's an ex-demo, so it is already broken in.
The new Analysis production (year 2010') largely outperforms the older one.
At present, my 'little' YBA 2 Alpha set give me satisfaction, but the Epsilon deserve better. Therefore I am upgrading for a YBA 1 set (pré + Power, High Current).
As far as dynamics is concerned (as Analysis' dynamics has been praised previously here), it is good *for a panel*. But in absolute terms, they are clearly outperformed by dynamic speakers, I regret to say. Unless my 70W YBA 2 Alpha High Current power amp shoul be qualified as 'under-powered', but I strongly doubt. Power is not all: current is much more important with panel.
A panel has anyway its own sense of the musical performance.
The Analysis diffuse the music into the room like no other. So if you're not always in the sweet spot, but want to have the feling that "they're here", no dynamic speaker can do want they do in this respect.
Now, if you sit IN the sweet spot and LISTEN to music (= you're not doing anything else, not even 'playing' with you smartphone or tablet, to discover a whole composition for instance), I regret the sheer immediacy and dynamics of a Wilson Sasha 2. Remarkable speakers recently discovered. But definitely not the same price...
Generally speaking, I still have to work with the global set-up, as the result are not up to the potential's level.
That's why I bought Jim Smith's book: Get Better sound. Still have to work thoroughfully with it. I also bought the DVD; not yet played it.
Musical regards.
Oliver
______________________
CD Meridian G08.2 - PREAMP YBA 2 Alpha - AMPLIFIER YBA 2 Alpha, High Current - PANELS: Analysis Epsilon (2010) - MAINS: dedicated line on the meter - Akustic Arts active power strip - SPEAKER CABLES Flatline MODULATION Oyaide Tunami Terzo
Hi Oliver, welcome to the forum and nice write up. I think 70w is underpowered, because I have compared 60w and 120w of the same amp on an Omega and the 120 did much better than the 60. The Analysis smaller models are much tougher to drive than the larger ones. For the ultimate in dynamics, an Amphitryon is required, while Omega is good too. Also, the US and UK distributor mod their crossovers to make them better. You are right, they need high current as well - but also higher wattage.
I am a fan, but I haven't liked the stock Epsilon that I have heard.
I am a fan, but I haven't liked the stock Epsilon that I have heard.
CORRECTION:
- from 1999 until 2014: I owned the Omikron
- 2014 ==> now: Epsilon (year buid: 2010)
Bigger models are too big for my 28m² room.
About the stock model of Epsilon you did not liked, I compared them with the Omega: they sounded very similar, with less bass for the Epsilon of course. As far as tone is concerned, the Epsilon are for me little Omegas, with less power in the bass. But I may have missed some qualities of the Omega, as the dealer had under-powered them a litlle, IMHO...
But I am curious about those modified filters. The UK importer is essentially a retailer; I hope his mod is serious. I will contact Tazos Hartzis, owner of Analysis Inc. about this.
I strongly suspect these Epsilon would have been ways better than the Omikron on those Naim ultra high end amplifiers, as the Epsilon, to my ears, seems to be far better than the little Omikron, in absolute terms.
oliver
The UK importer is an audiophile, he has been working away at his to improve the sound over many years. It is the only speaker he listens to, and treats it as his personal speaker. The US distributor has 3 crossovers at different prices - Mundorf, Jupiter and Duelunds. I have heard the Amphitryon modded with Lamm amplification (220w hybrids), as well as the modded Omegas. I think in a normal room it would not make much of a difference, you would need over 20 feet for the Amphi to matter. Personally I would not buy an Epsilon, I would go for a Martin Logan hybrid like the Montis instead. I have also passed on opportunities to buy used Omegas at 5 - 6k Eur. There is also a ribbon magnet hybrid in NJ that is as good as a stock Omega (IMO) and very dynamic because of the woofer, that retails at $6k. Since it is a small manufacturer the margins are low. Called GT Audio planar
Seems intriguing, but the filters of my Epsilon are embedded: no way to switch easily and compare against other filters.
I personnally would not. But it's a matter of taste.
I listen to the the most difficult kind of music to reproduce: classical.
THE problem of 99,9% of nowadays production in high end loudspeaker: they lack body, matter and 'chest'. They throw at you tons of unorganised torrents of details, and breathtaking transparency, but dramatically fail to convey music.
I would 100 times prefer a Harbeth M30.1 Anniversary (1) instead of a Logan, if I has to choose.
The Logan have fascinated me while I was 23. They are behind me forever. So are the Maggies.
But again, a matter of taste.
oliver
(1) - "the best compact two-way speaker system I have ever heard, regardless of type, cost, or complexity" (Absolute Sounds)
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/harbeth-monitor-301-loudspeaker/
I listen to them thoroughly. They are just AWESOME, from a strict musical point of view.
Hi Oliver, I too demo on classical. I also average one live show a week in London at the barbican, wigmore hall, etc. Baroque, piano, opera, and orchestra. Watching a few symphonies with Simon Rattle and Berlin next month, watched Dudamel this month. The UK dealer has the best classical ear in dealers here.
These guys take the crossover out of the speaker and make it external to tinker with them. They also change the wiring in. US guy changes it to JpS labs, UK guy changes the copper wiring to silver (LFD). South African dealer changes wiring too.
I don't like Maggie's either (haven't heard the 20.7). The Logans today are much improved from before, the bass and dynamics are fantastic. They.do fall short on piano
These guys take the crossover out of the speaker and make it external to tinker with them. They also change the wiring in. US guy changes it to JpS labs, UK guy changes the copper wiring to silver (LFD). South African dealer changes wiring too.
I don't like Maggie's either (haven't heard the 20.7). The Logans today are much improved from before, the bass and dynamics are fantastic. They.do fall short on piano
After having spent a good amount of $$$ on a high-end speaker system, I really do not see the point in changing anything internally or externally.
Fiddling with the cross-overs and modding them is a waste of extra dollars. If this was the norm, then in that case nearly every speaker, amplifier, source and even your own dam ears can do better with a bit of "modding".
I personally think it's a load of Bollocks!
Why can't you just enjoy the systems as they were designed and intended? In that case you might as well be a speaker builder/designer yourself! I don't see the point in this unless the manufacturer has an option to do so, hence pay the extra. In any case we as music lovers or audiophiles would naturally want the best thing, so it eats into our ego and we end up paying way too much for the same dam thing!
The designer and manufacturer know this very well and get away with it handsomely!
Placing tweaks, power conditioning, EMI filters etc, is ok because this improves the overall noise floor and presence. But actually modding them into various forms is a big NO for me.
If it doesn't sound any good just the way it is intended to sound, then it is really no good!
As you have stated, there will always be something short on all systems, either piano lacks, midrange is not that great or bass was too boomy, what the hec just enjoy the music!
In that case I think you're better off just attending those live concerts mate.
Cheers Bonzo and have a good one.
RJ
Fiddling with the cross-overs and modding them is a waste of extra dollars. If this was the norm, then in that case nearly every speaker, amplifier, source and even your own dam ears can do better with a bit of "modding".
I personally think it's a load of Bollocks!
Why can't you just enjoy the systems as they were designed and intended? In that case you might as well be a speaker builder/designer yourself! I don't see the point in this unless the manufacturer has an option to do so, hence pay the extra. In any case we as music lovers or audiophiles would naturally want the best thing, so it eats into our ego and we end up paying way too much for the same dam thing!
The designer and manufacturer know this very well and get away with it handsomely!
Placing tweaks, power conditioning, EMI filters etc, is ok because this improves the overall noise floor and presence. But actually modding them into various forms is a big NO for me.
If it doesn't sound any good just the way it is intended to sound, then it is really no good!
As you have stated, there will always be something short on all systems, either piano lacks, midrange is not that great or bass was too boomy, what the hec just enjoy the music!
In that case I think you're better off just attending those live concerts mate.
Cheers Bonzo and have a good one.
RJ
Big Dog, most components improve on mods, some more than others. Valve electronics can improve a lot on mods. Truth is, all designers use not the best quality, and in some cases, lower quality, components to improve their margins. Upgrading crossover components, wiring, power supplies, etc should result in improvements in many components.
Also, each designer, like everyone else, has his limits. For example, the AA are modded Apogees. Now, the US and the UK distributor after living with those speakers for years and tinkering with them, have found out what makes them sound better, and tweaked crossovers and cabling accordingly. You should see the mods the Rockport and Jadis distributor here does to his Rockports and Jadis. But then he sells to rich middle east clients.
The best advice I got is to buy the components I like from a long term audiophile, who has played around with his gear and improved it. For example, if I wanted to buy the Dali Megalines, I would (on hearsay, since I haven't heard it), buy Albert Porter's modded Megalines. Of course this should be done only if it's the final component you are not going to swap since mods mean selling and buying used becomes a bit of a problem
Also, each designer, like everyone else, has his limits. For example, the AA are modded Apogees. Now, the US and the UK distributor after living with those speakers for years and tinkering with them, have found out what makes them sound better, and tweaked crossovers and cabling accordingly. You should see the mods the Rockport and Jadis distributor here does to his Rockports and Jadis. But then he sells to rich middle east clients.
The best advice I got is to buy the components I like from a long term audiophile, who has played around with his gear and improved it. For example, if I wanted to buy the Dali Megalines, I would (on hearsay, since I haven't heard it), buy Albert Porter's modded Megalines. Of course this should be done only if it's the final component you are not going to swap since mods mean selling and buying used becomes a bit of a problem
I have heard 2 awesome system...one totally unmodded...and one heavily modded (speakers)...and both were remarkable. But the modded one was done by someone who was an engineer on those speakers...
I agree that mods are great way to improving sound, and we all get carried away with it. BUT in my opinion what's the point in changing things internally (circuits, wiring, transformers etc) when we've already dumped enough money into the components.
So in that case we are claiming that the designers are not that competent after all...
There's always room for improvement, and perhaps replacing normal electrolytic caps with Teflon would improve the sound, yes.
Perhaps external mods, such as Sort Kones, still points, spikes, weights, bracing and rolling tubes could also be justified, yes since I do it myself. But then comes along something else, which is not modded and beats the hell out of all mods you've done combined, and this makes you feel very frustrated after having spent a good amount of $$$.
So my question is where does it end? Perhaps it never ends, hence I don't see the point in excessive modding.
I would just appreciate the system the way it was intended for use and to enjoy the music not the system.
Cheers, RJ
So in that case we are claiming that the designers are not that competent after all...
There's always room for improvement, and perhaps replacing normal electrolytic caps with Teflon would improve the sound, yes.
Perhaps external mods, such as Sort Kones, still points, spikes, weights, bracing and rolling tubes could also be justified, yes since I do it myself. But then comes along something else, which is not modded and beats the hell out of all mods you've done combined, and this makes you feel very frustrated after having spent a good amount of $$$.
So my question is where does it end? Perhaps it never ends, hence I don't see the point in excessive modding.
I would just appreciate the system the way it was intended for use and to enjoy the music not the system.
Cheers, RJ
What you say is true of all hifi, then we should all settle for adequate-fi. We don't need a system to enjoy music. I enjoy my classical music most at live shows. Led Zep sounds best off bootleg albums on youtube. Here, the process of finding upgrades and maximizing cost/output is where the fun is. Whether you mod or not, in this hobby, nothing ever ends. Some of us are not DIY guys, so we shouldn't mod ourselves, but if one has the choice to buy a good modded component, one should.
Let's put it this way...for example one can consider four different speakers...Logans, AA, AA modded by UK distributor, and AA modded by US distributor. The latter two are available off the shelf. I would buy one of those two and not the AA.
Let's put it this way...for example one can consider four different speakers...Logans, AA, AA modded by UK distributor, and AA modded by US distributor. The latter two are available off the shelf. I would buy one of those two and not the AA.
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