Analysis Planar Ribbon Loudspeakers

MrAcoustat

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Great audio equipment has a way of improving when things like what you did are carefully done. Congrats! And it was free!!! Even better. I am under the impression that one thing AA does well is build very robust frames which helps i suspect in the delivery of impact because the entire framework is more solid?

I think Quad did the same versus the original from many, many years ago. The question is whether any damping or isolation to further reduce vibration have any effect on the sound? Just curious...perhaps might be another 'tweak' to keep improving your already great Quads...enjoy!

I can tell you that ( solid frames ) do make a BIG difference in the sound of your panels my friend Jocelyn that rebuilts Acoustats as been doing this for many years you may see the making of my all 2x3 steel frame model 1+1 Acoustats in my Flickr photo album if you wish ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/mracoustat/ )) my friend buys Acoustat regular panels - spectra panels - interfaces - any parts that are close by BUT one thing he does not keep are the frames they go straight into the bargage.:)

PS: My model are the smaller ones they weigh 200 pounds // the larger ones are close to 800.

MrAcoustat & Speaker.JPG Acoustat Spectra 8800 05.jpg
 

LL21

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I can tell you that ( solid frames ) do make a BIG difference in the sound of your panels my friend Jocelyn that rebuilts Acoustats as been doing this for many years you may see the making of my all 2x3 steel frame model 1+1 Acoustats in my Flickr photo album if you wish ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/mracoustat/ )) my friend buys Acoustat regular panels - spectra panels - interfaces - any parts that are close by BUT one thing he does not keep are the frames they go straight into the bargage.:)

PS: My model are the smaller ones they weigh 200 pounds // the larger ones are close to 800.


great for the confirmation...i suspected as much. I do wonder if Big Dog RJ's Quads would benefit from this...and more important HOW he can do this without rebuilding the frames.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Yes, indeed that would be a fantastic journey in improving the overall sound of what you've already got!

I remember our SME man, Mr Alistair himself had the much older Quad ESL 63's with massive steel frames having the panels stacked! The overall weight of each stacked panel was something to reckon with. I wish I could have personally being there to observe this project and immerse myself in that glorious sound. This is what led David Patching and the Quad team to completely revamp its design and structure, and have now produced a very dynamic and powerful stat. The thing is, there is no doubt that any sound would improve with special bracing and rigidness, the question is how far can we continue to improve...

I can clearly see in newer designed Quads, they can deliver so much more of everything compared to the previous models, especially in the bass region. I also noticed this with the AA's compared to magnepans. The AA's seemed and felt far more rigid, also weight was another factor to consider. Comparing the Omega's to what I used to own with maggies, earlier MG20 series, and several MG 3 series, the AA's clearly were far more stable, particularly the top half of the Omega's didn't flinch a bit even when pushed slightly by hand.

Anyway, I guess Magnepan will address better rigidness in their newer models. It will also be very interesting to see what designs are offered in the future. Perhaps Magenpan could benefit by lessening the height of their panels, don't know...

Hey Loyd, just wondering whether you came across improvements with your QX4? You mentioned that your Zanden systems were plugged directly to the QX4 now, and that you were trying to relocate the position, how did it go? The improvement I got and still getting has been well received!
Do let me know.

Cheers for season!
RJ
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Yes, indeed that would be a fantastic journey in improving the overall sound of what you've already got!

I remember our SME man, Mr Alistair himself had the much older Quad ESL 63's with massive steel frames having the panels stacked! The overall weight of each stacked panel was something to reckon with...The thing is, there is no doubt that any sound would improve with special bracing and rigidness, the question is how far can we continue to improve...

... Comparing the Omega's to what I used to own with maggies, earlier MG20 series, and several MG 3 series, the AA's clearly were far more stable, particularly the top half of the Omega's didn't flinch a bit even when pushed slightly by hand....

Hey Loyd, just wondering whether you came across improvements with your QX4? You mentioned that your Zanden systems were plugged directly to the QX4 now, and that you were trying to relocate the position, how did it go? The improvement I got and still getting has been well received!
Do let me know.

Cheers for season!
RJ
Hey there. If you are able to borrow and Entreq Vibb eater, a big one, I would be curious if it helps in top of you your quads. I have top on top of my Wilson X1s, and I really like the improvement.

I have not tries the Zanden QX4 thing yet...I will report back when I have. Thanks for reminding me!
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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G'day Gentlemen, trust your 2015 has gone off to a flying start!

I was just relaxing this evening after a hard days work, listening to Sarah McKenzie, an Australian jazz vocalist, and did a quick browse through WBF to check on new things to learn... and low and behold! I came across something that perhaps we may have missed by a far margin.

During my previous visit to demo the AA Omega's, they were quite impressive driven with VTL 750's. However, the overall "launch" of sound from the Omicron's was spectacular!

Then in my earlier review of the Omicron's, at the AA dealership, I mentioned that the amplification during the demo was from Naim, I also mentioned statements. It seems that we missed out the word "statement" and just concentrated on Naim. Hence, the reaction I got from a few fellow audiophiles that my c-j gear would sound far batter than Naim...

Then somewhere on this forum, I came across a thread posted under amplification, which read "Naim Statements"; YES this is the big Statement amplifier that was driving the small bloody Omicron's, no wonder it sound so dam fantastic! These are 1000 watt monoblocks (class D amplification) and cost around 250 grand in Australia! They weigh in over 100kg and when I first saw these things, I thought they were just part of the décor, like a coffee table top or something, until the chappy actually told me that these were amplifiers from Naim. I had never seem anything like it.

That's why I came out of that demo claiming it to be the best I've heard in the last decade! There have been memorable ones, over the past 20 years, hence I cannot remember what the sound was exactly like then... The only one ribbon speaker that I really loved and once previously owned, were the Apogee's, and that I clearly do remember their signature sound.

However, these Naim Statements, I believe can drive anything out there, and their design is like no other. Materials used is craziness to the top, everything from top to bottom has been designed with a purpose and what's more crazy is who on earth would purchase a pair of 250 grand amplifiers and drive a pair of speakers that only cost around 15 grand...? Whatever the answer is in all it's silliness, I can only say one thing, the sound was absolutely stunning!

Having said that, I personally wouldn't spend that kind of money on an amp, let alone monoblocks, and the best thing is these are SS class D. Therefore, listening to tubes is far more justifiable and equally musical. The only mind boggling thing is that these Statements sounded so smooth and had all the virtues of SS & tubes put together. These amps had no flaws, I couldn't even figure out if these were amplifiers to begin with, and the listen-ability factor was 110% absolutely zero listening fatigue, and Con, the dealer chappy himself, actually sat down on the floor and listened alongside. We both agreed, you could listen to this sound for endless hours...

Anyway, I thought I'd post this one because I had clearly missed out what these Statements were all about until I came across the thread. No wonder, yes for $250,000 of amplification they better sound dam good!

Cheers to all, RJ
 

bonzo75

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Actually, that explains. I was surprised that an unmodded Omnicron sounded so good. I personally don't like anything below the modded Omegas, call me a snob.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Hey mate,

No, not really. Preferring the Omega's wouldn't be snobbish at all. I was very impressed with the Omega's being driven with the massive VTL 750's. Then when I spent a lot more time with the Omicron's, Con, the dealer chappy himself, sat down on the floor and listened alongside. We both agreed that the "listen-ability" factor was top notch, you could listen to this Statement system for endless hours.

They are built to some outstanding standards, and whatever they've done with the Statements, all I can say is that they are in a league all by itself!
I was very keen on the top line stuff from Lamm but after spending sometime with the Statements, I can clearly see why they're probably called "Statements," and for 250 grand they better be!

I can only imagine what the Omega's would sound like if they were driven with the Statements, I think that would be the ultimate in terms of speed, definition, clarity and most of all that musicality factor. As for me I would never purchase something like that, unless I was totally super-rich like the Arabs in Emirates... what the hec! I wonder how many of these amps Naim has actually sold...

In all my travels and living in various countries, I have heard some extremely fancy gear with ultra high-end prices. However, I think I have not come across anything like this before in terms of amplification, and that is why it still remains as the best sound I have heard in the last decade.
As for now, I'm heading off to the lounge to relax to some Esparanza Spalding, too much violence going on, now another dam terrorist stand-off in France. Dam radicals, if only they listened to good music through some decent gear, perhaps they might have a different point of view to life...

Cheers to all, keep safe and enjoy your music!
RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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OK, just to let all the panel enthusiasts know, this coming weekend I have arranged for the all time great showdown and it's happening here in Melbourne with the AA Omega's.
No, amplification will not be from Naim Statements, I know that's a disappointment... but rather from the three names below:

Pass Labs (150w mono's), McIntosh (MC452), and C-J (my humble little MV60SE). I thought I'd take this out for a spin just to compare what real 60 watts of KT120's can deliver! I hope the Omega's at least manage to sneeze, since it can drive my Quads quite well.

Will let you all know either by Sat evening or Sunday night.
The deal is the chappy wants to upgrade to a newer version of his VTL's, in the meantime he has got hold of a few mates that have the above amps and are willing to demo since they are all overly excited about his Omega's. I told the Melbourne dealer chappy to bring along his Naim Statements but that would just kill the show! So no fun there.

Alright until then, later.
RJ
 

bonzo75

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What is the wattage of the CJ? Like I mentioned, one guy did not like the Pass on his amphi, though not sure which model. I thought my ARC Ref 110 was just average. These are tough to drive speakers. NAT and Lamm were great. I think the 150w monos should be fine if they are AB. What is the Mcintosh wattage? Btw, I am planning to dem an unmodded Amphi this Saturday.
 

MrAcoustat

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What is the wattage of the CJ? Like I mentioned, one guy did not like the Pass on his amphi, though not sure which model. I thought my ARC Ref 110 was just average. These are tough to drive speakers. NAT and Lamm were great. I think the 150w monos should be fine if they are AB. What is the Mcintosh wattage? Btw, I am planning to dem an unmodded Amphi this Saturday.

Here is my prediction, the McIntosh MC-452 with it's 450 watts per channel will be the winner by far, i love all Conrad Johnson products BUT even a very good 60 watts per channel amp it is NO match for 450 watts, as for Pass Labs i am not crazy about their signature if there was a Plinius in there that would be a different story.:)
 

bonzo75

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wow 450. SHould be good
 

Big Dog RJ

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Hi mate,

My CJ is just 60watts of pure tube power coming from a pair of KT120's per channel in stereo. It has driven some very tough stuff out there, and the good chappy says that I will be pretty amazed. He claims that it is only a matter of room size to amplify that is important, not just the size of amp.

The MC452 is 452 w/ch Class AB SS stereo power amp

The Pass are the XA160.8 mono amps.

The other chap who's bringing the Pass along, is using them to drive some big Usher's top of the line stuff. I heard his system but I preferred the AA ribbons, or the Quads for that matter. The Usher's were great sounding, very smooth top notch stuff with complete dynamics and solid slam, but lacked that stat sound and depth I am fond of... It also didn't have the "stunning" performance of the Omicrons being driven by Naim State's.

He also states that although the XA160.8 is rated at 160 watts pure class A, they lean more towards 120 watts since they tend to dip when driving stats or panel type speakers. Not a problem when driving dynamic driver types though, as they tend to double in wattage as the impedence drops. One thing for sure is they all absolutely love AA ribbons!

I've had a few of these nutty chaps at my place auditioning the CJ's with the Quads. They were quite impressed with the whole set up being so simple and able to deliver great depth and soundstage with just 60watts! The main thing is, it is a fairly small room with a good amount of 20ft or so behind the listening position because it opens towards a dinning and kitchen unit. Hence, the bass or standing waves are never trapped, and just about as the full wave of sound reaches your ears, there is a "L" shaped corridor that filters all the nasties out. So the stage has a great 3-D effect to it.
And 60watts is plenty!

C-J amps are very reliable with solid power supplies and even their moderate wattage ones deliver in heaps, it's more to do with the current capability that c-j focuses on.
Lets see how it goes, I think it'll be a good ride!
Cheers, RJ
 

bonzo75

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Get the NAT monos from New Zealand, they will beat all these amps. 120w SET Class A with tube. Rated 1 by a German mag
 

BobM

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my prediction

CJ will sound awesome on vocals, simple acoustic instrumentation and light classical. Sweet, musical, nice soundstage, but not able to handle anything with big dynamics as powerfully as the others.

Mac will handle the dynamic swings effortlessly, and very well might approach the CJ for sweetness. But it will sound rolled off compared to the Pass

Pass will give you more details, twinlky stuff, dynamics, but very well may sound a bit forward compared to the others.

It's all going to be a matter of what types of music you enjoy and which presentation suits your ear.
 

bonzo75

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Big Dog is not into classical, which the AA is so good at
 

Big Dog RJ

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Big Dog is not into classical, which the AA is so good at

Yes, all true! 99.9% of my music is jazz no doubt. My references have been Diana Krall and Casandra Wilson for vocals and Kenny Burrel, Larry Carlton and George Benson on guitars, and of course the formidable group Fourplay. I have heard all of them live at small jazz clubs, awesome stuff!

Hey Trevor, the Magtechs would certainly be an interesting addition. However, I think the chap has already ordered the top of the line VTLs. He is trying to off r up his now older vtls, but I don't think he'll get the price he's after. ..

Cheers, will let you all know how this goes.
RJ
 

bonzo75

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Yes, all true! 99.9% of my music is jazz no doubt. My references have been Diana Krall and Casandra Wilson for vocals and Kenny Burrel, Larry Carlton and George Benson on guitars, and of course the formidable group Fourplay. I have heard all of them live at small jazz clubs, awesome stuff!

Hey Trevor, the Magtechs would certainly be an interesting addition. However, I think the chap has already ordered the top of the line VTLs. He is trying to off r up his now older vtls, but I don't think he'll get the price he's after. ..

Cheers, will let you all know how this goes.
RJ

The best Jazz by far was on the Tune Audio Anima horns. They are Greek made, but have a dealer down under. 32k Euro though, but worth listening to. I am talking more of the brass/drum jazz

Krispy Audio
Contact: Cameron Pope
T. (2) 8006 4666
@ info@krispyaudio.com.au
W www.krispyaudio.com.au
 

MrAcoustat

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Jun 5, 2012
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The best Jazz by far was on the Tune Audio Anima horns. They are Greek made, but have a dealer down under. 32k Euro though, but worth listening to. I am talking more of the brass/drum jazz

Krispy Audio
Contact: Cameron Pope
T. (2) 8006 4666
@ info@krispyaudio.com.au
W www.krispyaudio.com.au

Of course it may be a question of choice but for me panels or horns the choice would be panels 100% of course i'm all for easy listening for big band jazz horns are probably better but that's not my kind of music.:)

P1012788.jpg
 

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