Tube Preamp vs Solid State

Thieliste · Dec 7, 2014

I am in the process of choosing the right preamp for my system.
Speakers are Thiel CS 3.7, stereo amp Karan KAS 600 and source Ayon S5 network player.
Having a Karan solid state amp i can either take their KA-L Rerefence Mk3 preamp or go the tube way with a VAC Signature Mk2.
Will i benefit more mating the VAC preamp with my solid state amp ?
Any experience on the subject is welcome.
Thanks.

Steve Williams · Dec 7, 2014

Thieliste said:
I am in the process of choosing the right preamp for my system.
Speakers are Thiel CS 3.7, stereo amp Karan KAS 600 and source Ayon S5 network player.
Having a Karan solid state amp i can either take their KA-L Rerefence Mk3 preamp or go the tube way with a VAC Signature Mk2.
Will i benefit more mating the VAC preamp with my solid state amp ?
Any experience on the subject is welcome.
Thanks.

many people with a SS amp will use a tube preamp in order to present a "tube like" sound

jfrech · Dec 7, 2014

I happen to agree with Steve...plus the VAC has a very nice phono section built in...buy something like a mid priced Rega or a used SME turntable and you'd be shocked at how good vinyl can be for not to much $$'s

Steve Williams · Dec 7, 2014

I first got into tubes when I had my Krell 750Mcx amps which I drove with an ARC Ref 3 Mk lll preamp

LL21 · Dec 7, 2014

Steve Williams said:
many people with a SS amp will use a tube preamp in order to present a "tube like" sound

I have a CJ GAT with Gryphon Colosseum...and before that i had CJ ACT2 with Gryphon Antileon. I guess i am consistent anyway!

DEV · Dec 7, 2014

Thieliste said:
I am in the process of choosing the right preamp for my system.
Speakers are Thiel CS 3.7, stereo amp Karan KAS 600 and source Ayon S5 network player.
Having a Karan solid state amp i can either take their KA-L Rerefence Mk3 preamp or go the tube way with a VAC Signature Mk2.
Will i benefit more mating the VAC preamp with my solid state amp ?
Any experience on the subject is welcome.
Thanks.

I have always preferred to have a tube pre paired up with solid state amplification.

In relation to the Vac pre you mention, it's a marvelous pce. I actually have allot of firsthand experience with this particular pce, a few years back know I owned three different pre-amps ARC Ref3 - VTL 7.5 - MBL 6010d and got the VAC to compare. At that time I was owned numerous amps and had numerous others arrive to compare - I had a pair of Karan 1200's on demo along with it's matching pre. To keep it short my preference was having the Vac paired up with it, bonus of having the top notch phono was nice in the Vac.

PS - you have a PM

DaveC · Dec 7, 2014

I think a good tube preamp should be the cornerstone of a system.

andromedaaudio · Dec 7, 2014

Tube pres usually give " the breath of life " bloom , the best way would be to try both in your own system and decide for yourself

microstrip · Dec 7, 2014

Steve Williams said:
many people with a SS amp will use a tube preamp in order to present a "tube like" sound

Although I have owned such systems with very good results in the past, I am not a partisan of such approach nowadays. IMHO pairing a tube preamplifier with a solid state amplifiier does not have the ultimate coherency and seamless sound signature of matching either two excellent tube or SS units. This is specially true if you use both units of the same brand.

Systems are always a compromise. I have always preferred tube preamplifiers and could easily accept using a SS amplifier if my music preferences, comfort and speakers needed it. But sometime ago I took the decision of letting the best speakers I have owned (the Sonusfaber Aida's) leave my listening room because I was not prepared to to move to a SS system. Although I could get decent results with my REF40 and SS amplifiers, unfortunately every time I connected the tubed REF150 I was aware of what I was loosing. BTW, this pair of Aida's is now successfully playing with the ARC REF610t with KT120's, a system I could not consider to the logistics and cost of tube replacement.

rockitman · Dec 7, 2014

If you go tube pre and SS power amps, it is critical there is an impedance match between the two. I prefer tube phono stages and currently use a SS pre. Have considered going to tube pre, but tube pre's are generally noisier, fussier and have less inputs...especially xlr and most often don't have a tape loop for recording and or signal processing when needed or desired. I still haven't made a choice whether I am going to Pass's XS pre from my XP-30 or going tube like ARC Ref 10 or some other. I saw a Lamm Ref 4 chassis used for like $20K on a-gon...very tempting however only having single ended rca inputs is a no starter for me along with no tape loop.

Thieliste · Dec 7, 2014

Thanks guys, i definitely have to try the VAC Sign Mk2 with the Karan 600 amp and see how it goes.
I have to see with my distributer if he can arrange an audition, not so easy since VAC is not well distributed outside North America.
Karan is also not well know but we have a very good distributer that has the whole line.

Joel · Dec 10, 2014

Thieliste said:
I am in the process of choosing the right preamp for my system.
Speakers are Thiel CS 3.7, stereo amp Karan KAS 600 and source Ayon S5 network player.
Having a Karan solid state amp i can either take their KA-L Rerefence Mk3 preamp or go the tube way with a VAC Signature Mk2.
Will i benefit more mating the VAC preamp with my solid state amp ?
Any experience on the subject is welcome.
Thanks.

Hello Thieliste,

I do not understand why you need a preamp using already the Ayon S5. My opinion is that the main interest of the S5 is the integration of dac and preamp. Then I fear you will have to spend a lot for perhaps a small improvement... Cheers. Joël.

Thieliste · Dec 10, 2014

Joel said:
Hello Thieliste,

I do not understand why you need a preamp using already the Ayon S5. My opinion is that the main interest of the S5 is the integration of dac and preamp. Then I fear you will have to spend a lot for perhaps a small improvement... Cheers. Joël.

Well my dealer told me that i would go much further using the Karan Reference preamp that mates perfectly with the amp.
I guess the Ayon S5 preamp part is not in the same league compared to a high end preamp like the VACs, VTLs and the Karan preamp.

LL21 · Dec 10, 2014

Thieliste said:
Well my dealer told me that i would go much further using the Karan Reference preamp that mates perfectly with the amp.
I guess the Ayon S5 preamp part is not in the same league compared to a high end preamp like the VACs, VTLs and the Karan preamp.

i just saw a review by Roy Gregory (?) of the Karan 650 monos...and he seemed to suggest he preferred them with CJ, ARC or VTL preamps over Karan's own. HiFi+ Magazine i believe...you mgiht want to check it out. I think he said if you wanted to make the signal a bit more etched, you could get that from the Karan pre which seemed to lean that way. Cannot exactly remember.

andromedaaudio · Dec 10, 2014

DEALER ????
What about hearing things for yourself

LL21 · Dec 10, 2014

andromedaaudio said:
DEALER ????
What about hearing things for yourself

Agree...depending on whether I trust a dealer or not...i usually consider the dealer's advice, but always keep my own counsel.

andromedaaudio · Dec 10, 2014

In half of the cases in the high end community overhere the dealers are either ignorant /snobby and or relentles promote their own portfolio , and at last there are quite a few open minded, professional , knowledgable dealers luckily .

Joel · Dec 10, 2014

Thieliste said:
Well my dealer told me that i would go much further using the Karan Reference preamp that mates perfectly with the amp.
I guess the Ayon S5 preamp part is not in the same league compared to a high end preamp like the VACs, VTLs and the Karan preamp.

If you consider the sole preamplification stage to be used with another external source, I think in fact the S5 cannot be compared to the best existing preamps. During the time passed with the S5, I had better results with my Rogue Hera 2 and my SMC VRE1 when these two contenders were used with an external source. But when I used the S5 as a digital player, it became obvious the integration with the internal preamplification stage brought an outstanding transparency and clarity. Then, I have no idea about the electrical match between your Karan amp and the Ayon S5, but keeping the S5 in addition to a high-end preamp sounds like wasting money...

bonzo75 · Dec 11, 2014

You can also try the NAT Audio from Serbia. Their Entry level preamp, Symmetrical, is better than ARC Ref 5SE. A German magazine rated it (at 7k Euros), second next to Ypsilon's 23k pre, and ahead of Dan Agostino's 30k pre. It is a valve pre. The next model up, Magnetic, is much better, apparently, though I haven't heard that one.

Thieliste · Dec 12, 2014

bonzo75 said:
You can also try the NAT Audio from Serbia. Their Entry level preamp, Symmetrical, is better than ARC Ref 5SE. A German magazine rated it (at 7k Euros), second next to Ypsilon's 23k pre, and ahead of Dan Agostino's 30k pre. It is a valve pre. The next model up, Magnetic, is much better, apparently, though I haven't heard that one.

Thanks bonzo75, i will investigate in NAT audio preamps , might be a good match for Karan solid state amp both Serbian brands.

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