Great concert rock systems your've heard

Peter Breuninger · Dec 3, 2014

I was reading a reply from Microstrip in another thread when he mentioned "some loud rock that drives me out of the room immediately." It got me thinking about great systems for rock and I mean real rock... Stones, Matallica, Madonna and NIN.

My pick is the MBL 101 E system, followed by surround set-up (4) Bozak Concert Grands. I think that great rock systems have to tame the top and super pressurize the room.

Who here has or had a great rock system?

Mike Lavigne · Dec 3, 2014

sorry.....i tried to not hit 'send'....but i could not control myself as this subject has been a significant driving force behind the concept of my system.

to me large 'orchestral' and large 'rock concert' capability are exactly the same thing. unlimited dynamics........bass extension and articulation......ease on musical peaks.....and zero compression. in other words.....huge headroom. you also need the ability to move lots of air in a linear way in the mid bass where rock music lives. then you need great sources that are immune to feedback.

hard to imagine a better 'rock concert' system than Evolution Acoustics MM7's-Dart 458's-in a large purpose designed room and oversized isolation trasformer power grid....with great vinyl sitting on Herzan active isolation shelves.

the best i've heard large scale reproduced music, either rock concert or orchestral, is my system. drum kits come fully alive to the degree that the mics and recording chain can capture them.

MBL's, even the big daddys, don't seem to be nearly as seamless (a matter of degrees) thru the mid-bass to my ears. to be fair; i've only heard the big guys at shows. and i mostly like MBL's when i hear them. MBL's do seem to stress amps and maybe that is what i hear in the mid bass. the MM7's are much more benign to an amp on peaks.

Asamel · Dec 3, 2014

Madonna??????????

still-one · Dec 3, 2014

I would have to agree with Peter. When properly set-up I have never heard any system that does what a full MBL set-up with the Xtremes can do. For most rock and especially for orchestral tracks they are head and shoulders above everything else. Those four columns disappear and it seems the room is energized with music. My audio epiphany.

esldude · Dec 3, 2014

Well if I had a dedicated rock system, I would get some of those powered pro sound speakers rock bands use for live concerts. You have the real deal then. Crushing power, and zingy upper midrange that will peel paint from the wall. The real live sound. Some of the pro stuff from JBL, Peavey, Mackie, Yamaha or QSC.

Then of course, this might not be so hot for other types of music.

On the other hand, I could take the money saved from not buying MBL's, and hire pretty young girls to come scream at the "band" when I played rock.

microstrip · Dec 3, 2014

Peter Breuninger said:
I was reading a reply from Microstrip in another thread when he mentioned "some loud rock that drives me out of the room immediately." It got me thinking about great systems for rock and I mean real rock... Stones, Matallica, Madonna and NIN.

Peter,

I am happy that my comment triggered such an interesting thread. Although I am not a big fan of this type of music I recently spent sometime with a German Physics Gaudi system at very loud levels - as some people said head and shoulders above everything else I have ever listened. I could believe I was in the front of the stage listening to Mick Jagger!

Apologies for the poor quality of the cellphone photo.

GaryProtein · Dec 3, 2014

I have been very happy with my tri-amplified, actively crossed over IRS-V, being able to play any recording I have ever wanted to listen to with great ease.

audioarcher · Dec 3, 2014

Unfortunately a lot of rock recordings are highly compressed. Listening at high levels to a highly compressed signal can get tiring even with the best/lowest distortion systems. Listening to the few really good rock recordings that are not compressed to death can be magical in a top notch system though.

JackD201 · Dec 3, 2014

Purite Audio said:
All systems should be great rock systems,great classical systems, great acoustic , the system doesn't know what it is playing.
Keith.

While the system doesn't know what it is playing, you do and you should tune accordingly. Next time you're at a concert, sit behind the FOH and take a peak at the RTA. The slope typically approaches 35 degrees. If you are crazy enough to really emulate a rock concert (105dB and up) you will not want a B&K type of curve. You're looking at maybe 12dB down at 20kHz and 12dB up at 20Hz or more.

Of course at sane levels which rock concerts are not, a system should play everything well. Personally I don't play rock unless I wan't to ROCK, and yes that means playing LOUD to the point of full tactile immersion. In that sense I agree with Peter. My system has adjustable tweeters and adjustable XO and level for bass.

Best rock simulation I've heard, VR-11s bi-amped with VAC 450 Statements and Sigfreid IIs up front, VR-9s at back playing MCH Pink Floyd through an EMM MCH front end with LFE support from a Gotham. Combined power here was over 10kW. A bit above 12 actually.

Mike Lavigne · Dec 3, 2014

JackD201 said:
While the system doesn't know what it is playing, you do and you should tune accordingly. Next time you're at a concert, sit behind the FOH and take a peak at the RTA. The slope typically approaches 35 degrees. If you are crazy enough to really emulate a rock concert (105dB and up) you will not want a B&K type of curve. You're looking at maybe 12dB down at 20kHz and 12dB up at 20Hz or more.

Of course at sane levels which rock concerts are not, a system should play everything well. Personally I don't play rock unless I wan't to ROCK, and yes that means playing LOUD to the point of full tactile immersion. In that sense I agree with Peter. My system has adjustable tweeters and adjustable XO and level for bass.

Best rock simulation I've heard, VR-11s bi-amped with VAC 450 Statements and Sigfreid IIs up front, VR-9s at back playing MCH Pink Floyd through an EMM MCH front end with LFE support from a Gotham. Combined power here was over 10kW. A bit above 12 actually.

at CES 2005 (or 2006?) when i owned VR9SE's, i was in the CES demo with a pair of VR-11's, a pair of VR9SE's and 4 darTZeel Stereo amps vertically bi-amped into each speaker, and EMM Switchman 6 and EMM Dac 6 multi-channel. Pinball Wizard in Quad was unforgetable.

JackD201 · Dec 3, 2014

Imagine if the 458s already existed at the time!

rockitman · Dec 3, 2014

My system does great with rock, large orchestral, chamber, jazz, pop, blues, ect. I had no idea people design systems for rock only. Headroom and dynamics is what's important...like Mike L says.

audioarcher · Dec 3, 2014

rockitman said:
My system does great with rock, large orchestral, chamber, jazz, pop, blues, ect. I had no idea people design systems for rock only. Headroom and dynamics is what's important...like Mike L says.

My system does really well with all types of music, including large scale works. Agree that headroom and dynamics are very important to the equation.

Mike Lavigne · Dec 3, 2014

JackD201 said:
Imagine if the 458s already existed at the time!

yes; 2 pair of 458's......that might do it.

yes; those are difference makers for sure.

Kevin has designed some killer speakers.

audioarcher · Dec 3, 2014

Purite Audio said:
All systems should be great rock systems,great classical systems, great acoustic , the system doesn't know what it is playing.
Keith.

Ideally yes. But it requires enough speaker efficiency and amplifier power to "cleanly" play all audible frequencies with a minimum of distortion. Few loudspeaker systems can pull that off at all frequencies at live volume levels. Not trivial.

lasercd · Dec 3, 2014

Best concert rock systems I've heard:

Pink Floyd July 3, 1977 Madison Square Garden (quadrophonic)
Emerson, Lake & Palmer July 8, 1977 Madison Square Garden (w/70 piece orchestra)

audioarcher · Dec 3, 2014

JackD201 said:
While the system doesn't know what it is playing, you do and you should tune accordingly. Next time you're at a concert, sit behind the FOH and take a peak at the RTA. The slope typically approaches 35 degrees. If you are crazy enough to really emulate a rock concert (105dB and up) you will not want a B&K type of curve. You're looking at maybe 12dB down at 20kHz and 12dB up at 20Hz or more.

This is true for many rock recordings. An unfortunate consequence of how they chose to master them.

The last rock concert I attended was Rush Clockwork Angles. It was of course too loud, and as you say the bass was really boosted. At least 20db and very boomy/unnatural.

GaryProtein · Dec 3, 2014

rockitman said:
My system does great with rock, large orchestral, chamber, jazz, pop, blues, ect. I had no idea people design systems for rock only. Headroom and dynamics is what's important...like Mike L says.

A friend of mine designs systems for large clubs and concert venues. 130+ dB is the rule.

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2014

Audioarcher, +1 - I saw Clockwork Angels by Rush at the O2 in London last year, and it was truly HORRENDOUS. Boomy sub bass, shredding treble and non existent midrange. You know you're in trouble when Neil Peart's drums sound more like the flight cases they are packed in!
That's it for me for gigs in big arenas - $150 to be aurally assaulted is a BIG waste of hard earned cash.
Listening to the sublime Exit…Stage Left Japanese vinyl pressing on my excellent home system takes me back to an era when live arena rock was loud but DYNAMIC, alas v.little anymore.

audioarcher · Dec 3, 2014

spiritofmusic said:
Audioarcher, +1 - I saw Clockwork Angels by Rush at the O2 in London last year, and it was truly HORRENDOUS. Boomy sub bass, shredding treble and non existent midrange. You know you're in trouble when Neil Peart's drums sound more like the flight cases they are packed in!
That's it for me for gigs in big arenas - $150 to be aurally assaulted is a BIG waste of hard earned cash.
Listening to the sublime Exit…Stage Left Japanese vinyl pressing on my excellent home system takes me back to an era when live arena rock was loud but DYNAMIC, alas v.little anymore.

Exactly. I was sitting very close to the sound engineer. You would think they would try to at least make it sound good where they are seated.

I saw a Steely Dan concert not too long before the Rush show. It was incredibly loud, but at least the tonal balance was better. I had to down a few drinks to be able too enjoy the show.

If I go to another large venue show I will bring ear plugs for sure.

Great concert rock systems your've heard

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