Magnepans vs. Electrostatics. What is the better technology? What do you prefer?

Gregadd

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Don I hear some manufacturers hate packing up from shows. You could go to RMAF purchase his exhibit and take it home at a good price.
Same problem here with Capital Audio Fest.
 

amirm

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Don I hear some manufacturers hate packing up from shows. You could go to RMAF purchase his exhibit and take it home at a good price.
Same problem here with Capital Audio Fest.
I don't know about RMAF but CES has very strict rules about not selling at the show.
 

DonH50

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There used to be some great deals for those who hung around to the bitter end and beyond. When I went to CES in Chicago ages ago with a Discwasher/Stax distributor there were a ton of those kind of deals. Another reason to make RMAF this year! Please stop, need no help spending my money... :)

Edit: Amir snuck in; I know what I saw, but maybe it was under the table, or maybe they weren't so strict back then.
 

Gregadd

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Amir I saw someone buy a pair of speakers at RMAF.
Don . my sister had a financial windfall.
.I t prompted me to coin this phrase,Other people have plans for your money.
.
.
 

DonH50

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Guess I don't have a huge problem with your plans for my money since I want them too, but you'll have to come to my place to hear them! :D

My bonus went to buy a new used car for our younger son. He was driving a truck given to us when my wife's dad passed away, but it is horrible on ice and snow so we got him something with 4WD. About the same time last year my old '97 Jeep played out and we bought our older son a new (used) car. I told everyone last weekend that next year's bonus I get to spend on me. :) We'll see...

Back on topic, I would really like to spend some time listening to the new 3.7i's. I am curious how much difference the quasi-ribbon panels make. I have always lusted after the 20.x since it has almost always used that topology, plus push-pull magnets so should be a little higher sensitivity and more linear (less distortion) compared to the other models. That (going up to 20.7's) puts them head to head with Sanders, thus my interest in hearing both.
 

astrotoy

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My consultant/dealer Tim Marutani just got a pair of Neoliths last week. I'll be going over to his place in a few days to take a listen. He is continuing to tweak their locations. He warns me that they are very different from his Magico M Projects and Q7's, which I have heard regularly over the past few years.

Larry
 

amirm

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My consultant/dealer Tim Marutani just got a pair of Neoliths last week. I'll be going over to his place in a few days to take a listen. He is continuing to tweak their locations. He warns me that they are very different from his Magico M Projects and Q7's, which I have heard regularly over the past few years.

Larry

He must be a master of understatement. :)
 

Gregadd

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Hope Michael Fremer will not be there.
I love the Avantgarde Duos.
 

astrotoy

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Hope Michael Fremer will not be there.
I love the Avantgarde Duos.

I've had the Duos for close to 15 years. Not thinking of changing them, especially since my Cary 2A3' SETs put out about 4 watts each. However, beginning in the late '70's my first pair of high end speakers were Magnepan MG-2167F's, the predecessors to the MG-II's. Later I had Acoustat 2+2's and then Quad ESL-63 US Monitors, the latter for close to 15 years. Never seriously considered ML's during those planar/electrostatic years. Don't remember exactly why.

Larry
 

bonzo75

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I love the acoustat 2 + 2
 

Gregadd

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I actually considered purchasing a Cary/,Duo combo. Unfortunately mind was poisoned against SET.
 

16hz lover

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Owned both, and just listened to both again last week. My ears prefer the Magnepan.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Owned both as well, several iterations of maggies- from MGIIIa to MG20. Electrostats- from Quad ESL63, Inner Sounds, Martin Logan and back to Quad 2905.
Overall, there is no best or better sound, it is simply what you prefer.

Magnepan's are superb value for money and they are far more reliable than the new Quads coming out of China. Although these are disasters in panel reliability, these failures can be solved with locally sourced parts built to spec, and they are far more reliable than the Chinese parts. Inspite of having all these flaws, I truly admire how they are able to portray the soundstage seamlessly without any hindrance, the depth and tonality are simply superb. I have not heard a maggie that can match it, although maggies may play more dynamic.

The MG3.7i and MG20.7 are outstanding value and can easily integrate into a beautiful setup. However, for that enveloping sound front to back, with mesmerising, vocals and pristine midrange, the electrostat has it all. It is the dispersion pattern of the Quads that makes these special, and they are truly special, when they work!
Cheers, RJ
 

MtnHam

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Owned both as well, several iterations of maggies- from MGIIIa to MG20. Electrostats- from Quad ESL63, Inner Sounds, Martin Logan and back to Quad 2905.
Overall, there is no best or better sound, it is simply what you prefer.

Magnepan's are superb value for money and they are far more reliable than the new Quads coming out of China. Although these are disasters in panel reliability, these failures can be solved with locally sourced parts built to spec, and they are far more reliable than the Chinese parts. Inspite of having all these flaws, I truly admire how they are able to portray the soundstage seamlessly without any hindrance, the depth and tonality are simply superb. I have not heard a maggie that can match it, although maggies may play more dynamic.

The MG3.7i and MG20.7 are outstanding value and can easily integrate into a beautiful setup. However, for that enveloping sound front to back, with mesmerising, vocals and pristine midrange, the electrostat has it all. It is the dispersion pattern of the Quads that makes these special, and they are truly special, when they work!
Cheers, RJ

Before embracing Sound Lab electrostatic panels in 1999 as my path to personal audio Nirvana, I had owned many fine speakers, starting in 1963, with ever better components as well. I find it amazing that they (SL) receive so little recognition, when they indeed are the best of all. Single panel, total coherence, full range (down to 24hz), albeit they (like Maggies) require a great (and powerful) amp to reach their potential.
 
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Barry

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The most significant sonic issues with the Magenpans, even the .7 series, stems from their somewhat opaque, slightly grainy sounding, crossover networks that limit transparency, immediacy, and to a lesser extent tonal color. (The stands are nothing to write home about either.) They are built to a price point that limits the technology. Use of better caps and inductors (like Duelund) or active bi/tri-amping can ameliorate these faults. Modified, they still don't quite match the transparency of the best electrostatics at the lowest volume levels, but they're close and they don't have some of stats other problems.
 
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microstrip

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Before embracing Sound Lab electrostatic panels in 1999 as my path to personal audio Nirvana, I had owned many fine speakers, starting in 1963, with ever better components as well. I find it amazing that they (SL) receive so little recognition, when they indeed are the best of all. Single panel, total coherence, full range (down to 24hz), albeit they (like Maggies) require a great (and powerful) amp to reach their potential.

People do not expect to see elephants in their gardens ... the Soundlabs are really enormous! And some people are afraid of maintenance - although they are now very robust, in case of bad luck sending panels for repair is a lot of work. The good think is that the cost of eventually replacing a mylar membrane is very reasonable!

BTW, setting a system with Soundlab's is not simple. They can sound magnificent, but unless properly setup they can sound miserable. They particularly need a really good source. Power, speaker and signal cables are also critical.
 

ozarktom

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Acoustat monitors with DD servo amps is the king of the panels. Very fast and dynamic with no bloat.
 
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Acoustat monitors with DD servo amps is the king of the panels. Very fast and dynamic with no bloat.

Many serious Acoustat fans (the late MrAcoustat for example) have heard them all but settled on 1+1. I've myself have used Acoustat 1+1 now for 9 years and still love them, would take me serious auditioning to determine if I could get by with something else. But no reason yet because of how well built the panels are. Almost indestructible for intended use. The panels cannot be repaired but you could acquire discarded replacement panels for a long time to come. The 1+1 being the most narrow of the original full range panel system has the best imaging. The Acoustat Spectra series followed using a 1/2 panel as "tweeter" and the rest for bass in order to get better imagine on the wider systems. I might consider one of those if I had much larger room, but I seriously like the idea and sound of a single 9" wide 8 foot tall full range electrostatic element, as the original ads said, it's a line source (nearly) and I fear any kind of midrange crossover could mess it up. I use stereo subs myself, but the Acoustats themselves have very nice sounding bass to about 40 Hz if you don't play very loud. It's extremely hard to make a cone subwoofer match and sound as the speakers do (I am still working on it for myself). Back in 1980 a guy I knew used Acoustat 3's and 4's as the "woofer" for his Plasmatronics, and even his Magneplanars. He said there was nothing as good as the Acoustat bass.

1+1 best use the Medallion "C" transformer interface, the servo tube interface in stock form would not work right with them. The best place to read about Acoustat mods and tweaking is at DIYAudio.com under the now 174 page dialog including TheAcoustatAnswerMan (Andy Szabo) who was an engineer at Acoustat during the Hafler era in Arizona. A number of people say they prefer the transformer interface, and some vice versa. Little doubt the transformer interface is more reliable and generally requires no maintenance. The transformers can possibly be overloaded but not likely if you downsize fuse to 3A which was the earliest spec (and the speakers will play to the point of compression that way anyway). Michael Savuto of Analog Associates rebuilds and modifies servo tube interfaces better and more reliable than stock according to reports, he was another engineer at Acoustat. Michael also sells the replacement transformers for the transformer interface (now made by Galaxy Transformers using the original designs). Roy Espinoza worked at Acoustat and now rebuilds the transformer interfaces.

I rarely get a chance to hear comparable systems like Soundlabs and Sanders. I once (at THS in 2009) asked Mr Sanders if he would sell a single width speaker without the woofer and he said he wouldn't, it would invite disaster. The Sanders I heard did sound very nice, except I didn't think his bass was as good as the panels could have used. That's what I'd like to see, but nobody wants to sell "drivers" they want to sell "systems" which means your stuck with whatever compromises in the bass system the designer settled on.

OT but a number of non-panel (but non-box) type speakers have similarly good sound or better to me, such as the updated walsh driver in German Physiks, the round electrostats (can't remember name) and the double MBL's, and systems having line arrays of ribbons and small drivers.

The most recent Magnepans have pretty much caught up with the speed and clarity of electrostats thanks to extensive use of ribbon magnetic drivers (and quasi-ribbon, but ribbon is still the best). I'd like to see a single full range ribbon narrow magnepan.
 
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rugyboogie

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Wow, this has been a very interesting read.
Thanks to all that have posted here.
Owned MG3 and after that it was Acoustat III.
Had the III for 8 years and went to Totem 1 then to Watt Puppies, now Maxx II.
Now looking for a new speaker for my retirement home that we are building off grid.
Leaning towards panels,so many options but worry about the big wattage required to drive the speakers.
Lot's of decisions.
 

DonH50

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Depending on your amplifier tastes, "big wattage" is pretty cheap these days. ATI makes some great amps for the money, there's Emotiva and Outlaw, D-Core and such, then on up to Brystons, Sanders, and similar. Maybe not WBAs (What's Best Amplifiers) but should do the job. I would personally tend to stick with class AB amps for ESLs, however, as most class-D amps still have lower HF damping and may have stability issues at the very highest frequencies driving ESLs low HF impedance (typically <2 ohms). That said I have not rigorously auditioned amplifiers for a while and some of the new designs sound good and claim stability into 2-ohm loads.

Going off-grid could present some interesting issues, of course. Well outside the scope of this thread, but I suspect there's enough interest in the subject to warrant another thread to discuss how you implement it.

I braved my Maggies' displeasure and purchased Revels. Pros and cons, but I had an itch to try conventional again, and am pretty happy with the Salon2's that I was able to get at a great price. They are not really any more sensitive than my MG-IIIa's so I'm glad I already had amplifiers (cheap ones, Emotiva) to drive them.

FWIWFM - Don
 

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