Will future Magico models have fuller bass?

caesar · Nov 29, 2014

Don't over-think it guys. Step right up and make your prediction. We can check back in 3-5 years.

My guess is we see an S7 (and possibly S9) with fuller bass to compete harder with the Wilson market. They will still maintain the Q series with leaner bass to appeal to the "accuracy" market segment, plus Wolf has to have a speaker he himself enjoys (and he doesn't seem like bass).

PeterA · Nov 29, 2014

caesar said:
Don't over-think it guys. Step right up and make your prediction. We can check back in 3-5 years.

My guess is we see an S7 (and possibly S9) with fuller bass to compete harder with the Wilson market. They will still maintain the Q series with leaner bass to appeal to the "accuracy" market segment, plus Wolf has to have a speaker he himself enjoys (and he doesn't seem like bass).

I think it it certainly possible, especially if they maintain the two distinct lines which seem to cater to different tastes. It's really a quality versus quantity question. I am one of those who prefer the more neutral tonal balance of the Q line and overall sense of transparency. The quality of the bass is outstanding IMO and I would not describe it as lean. It just lacks overhang. But I have a good friend who prefers the slam and bass impact of his S5. He listens to more amplified music than I do, and that may explain it. He is a former Sophia/Sasha/Alexia owner who has switched to the Magico S5.

Isn't Magico already competing extremely successfully with Wilson? Especially considering that they are just now celebrating ten years in business with the M Project speaker. They are firmly established in the industry after a relatively short time. It's pretty impressive.

JackD201 · Nov 29, 2014

Magicos IMO aren't lean. They just need more juice than most to not be or put better, to reach their potential. I just heard a pair of Q5s driven by bridged Hegels and they sounded very good to me.

As to caesar's original question, I think the S was the answer to that market demand.

caesar · Nov 29, 2014

PeterA said:
I think it it certainly possible, especially if they maintain the two distinct lines which seem to cater to different tastes. It's really a quality versus quantity question. I am one of those who prefer the more neutral tonal balance of the Q line and overall sense of transparency. The quality of the bass is outstanding IMO and I would not describe it as lean. It just lacks overhang. But I have a good friend who prefers the slam and bass impact of his S5. He listens to more amplified music than I do, and that may explain it. He is a former Sophia/Sasha/Alexia owner who has switched to the Magico S5.

Isn't Magico already competing extremely successfully with Wilson? Especially considering that they are just now celebrating ten years in business with the M Project speaker. They are firmly established in the industry after a relatively short time. It's pretty impressive.

I am not sure anyone knows if they are "competing" without looking at industry statistics. But as you say, the S series and Q series are completely different sounding. And I don't think Magico would be as successful without the S. I am not sure they selling that many Q's any more, but I believe the S's are selling pretty well. And I would tend to think the larger S speakers with fuller bass would temp more Wilson guys to cross-over than the Q speakers.

I do wonder how full or lean the bass from the M project speaker is...

caesar · Nov 29, 2014

JackD201 said:
Magicos IMO aren't lean. They just need more juice than most to not be or put better, to reach their potential. I just heard a pair of Q5s driven by bridged Hegels and they sounded very good to me.

As to caesar's original question, I think the S was the answer to that market demand.

Interesting, Jack. What do you think the market was demanding - a lower priced product or fuller bass?

awsmone · Nov 29, 2014

Be interesting Magico Q7 versus Gamut S9

To polar opposites to achieve sound reproduction in a high quality speaker

Maybe one of them abandons current construction paradigm

JackD201 · Nov 29, 2014

caesar said:
Interesting, Jack. What do you think the market was demanding - a lower priced product or fuller bass?

Fuller bass IMO. Over here the initial reaction to the Q5 was that it was lean. It wasn't the speaker's fault really. The amps the dealer had at the time just couldn't handle them. That changed when they incorporated a couple of lines of high powered amps in their line-up.

I also think that in some ways a rubicon has been passed by the global audio community. In the past, the collective mantra was "I'll take less bass over lousy bass". While this still holds true, it has gotten a heck of a lot easier to avoid lousy bass these days. There are so many passive and active room solutions, it's almost criminal not to employ at least some of them. No I take that back, it IS friggin criminal! LOL. I've noticed that those that have, by natural consequence, have been able to put lower goin' speakers in the same rooms. Less and less people are accepting frequency limits, with subs now firmly accepted even monitor guys are refusing to live with these limits.

This makes me very happy. I was, am and always will be a bass head

Make that good bass though

BlueFox · Nov 29, 2014

Are you asking if they will make a speaker that over emphasizes a particular frequency? I hope not. The speaker's job is to reproduce what was recorded as accurately as possible.

caesar · Nov 29, 2014

BlueFox said:
Are you asking if they will make a speaker that over emphasizes a particular frequency? I hope not. The speaker's job is to reproduce what was recorded as accurately as possible.

Interesting comment. Most outside observers, not fan boys or fanatics, would charactrize the Magico S class as doing just that - making the bass fuller than their Q series in order to appeal to a broader market.

BlueFox · Nov 29, 2014

caesar said:
Interesting comment. Most outside observers, not fan boys or fanatics, would charactrize the Magico S class as doing just that - making the bass fuller than their Q series in order to appeal to a broader market.

I have read that a few times at various sites, and I was a little nervous about buying the S5s. However, I don't think they have any more bass than the Aerial Acoustics 7Ts they replaced. What they do have is a very clean and defined bass if it is in the recording. For example, I am currently listening to Patricia Barber, and I can clearly point to a spot in space where bass notes are playing.

I think the S class appeals to a broader market by providing accurate speakers at a more realistic price. It only took me a short while to mentally recover from spending that much on a speaker.

FrantzM · Nov 30, 2014

JackD201 said:
Fuller bass IMO. Over here the initial reaction to the Q5 was that it was lean. It wasn't the speaker's fault really. The amps the dealer had at the time just couldn't handle them. That changed when they incorporated a couple of lines of high powered amps in their line-up.

I also think that in some ways a rubicon has been passed by the global audio community. In the past, the collective mantra was "I'll take less bass over lousy bass". While this still holds true, it has gotten a heck of a lot easier to avoid lousy bass these days. There are so many passive and active room solutions, it's almost criminal not to employ at least some of them. No I take that back, it IS friggin criminal! LOL. I've noticed that those that have, by natural consequence, have been able to put lower goin' speakers in the same rooms. Less and less people are accepting frequency limits, with subs now firmly accepted even monitor guys are refusing to live with these limits.

This makes me very happy. I was, am and always will be a bass head Make that good bass though

As usual, abalanced post from you. I,also was of the opinion that Magico Q series were leanThis is as far from the truth as it can be. They actually go with authority lower then many celebrated speakers. They don't however don't have the touch of midbass empasis that many prenten but with a lack of midbass emphasis. This require however substantial Wattage from the amps. The Q5 in particular is a beast to drive. I heard it with Solutions and the bass is out there, one of the most potent I have heard.

EricDH · Nov 30, 2014

FrantzM said:
The Q5 in particular is a beast to drive. I heard it with Solutions and the bass is out there, one of the most potent I have heard.

A few years back I heard the Q5s with a complete Souluton set-up (both CD player and amplification). That is for me still the benchmark of good sound reproduction (I have not heard the Q7 or M project). Also in the low frequencies, I really didn't miss anything. I found the Q5 a revelation after the V series, which I found very transparent, but not very involving.

Tand · Nov 30, 2014

I used Krell Evo 900 on my Q5 and it sounded aboslutly fantastic, lots of controll, details and slam but now I am using the Krell MRAs and they took the Q5 to a new degree of realism! The sense of utter controll is breathtaking! One big advantage (as I live in an appartement) is that I have no problem getting lots of dynamics when playing low/ moderate.

Tommy

FrantzM · Nov 30, 2014

tand said:
I used Krell Evo 900 on my Q5 and it sounded aboslutly fantastic, lost of controll, details and slam but now I am using the Krell MRAs and they took the Q5 to a new degree of realism! The sense of utter controll is breathtaking! One big advantage (as I live in an appartement) is that I have no problem getting lots of dynamics when playing low/ moderate.

Tommy

Funny, I was wondering how Krell would sound with Magico... Very interesting pairing. Once properly driven and that means serious amplification with gob of power and stability, the Q5 reveals itself to be one of the best speakers around. Bass is as full as it gets. The utter linearity of the speaker in the low register is a benchmark IMO. One would expect that fromhe Q7since it is the TOL and extremely dear.The Q5 is right there with the best in all regards when driven by adequate amplifers for its definite qirks. Ibelieve that those were somewhat addressed in the Q7.

LL21 · Nov 30, 2014

tand said:
I used Krell Evo 900 on my Q5 and it sounded aboslutly fantastic, lost of controll, details and slam but now I am using the Krell MRAs and they took the Q5 to a new degree of realism! The sense of utter controll is breathtaking! One big advantage (as I live in an appartement) is that I have no problem getting lots of dynamics when playing low/ moderate.

Tommy

Wow...that must be stunning indeed. Krell MRA's!!! The stuff of legend. And given the voicing of the amps that descended from that amp (FPB 600/700 series), i could well imagine the Q5 would sound GREAT with them. Congrats.

Have you ever considered a QSub with your setup? I could imagine such a setup could well stand up to the biggest of the big rigs and in a much more compact package.

nirodha · Nov 30, 2014

EricDH said:
A few years back I heard the Q5s with a complete Souluton set-up (both CD player and amplification). That is for me still the benchmark of good sound reproduction (I have not heard the Q7 or M project). Also in the low frequencies, I really didn't miss anything. I found the Q5 a revelation after the V series, which I found very transparent, but not very involving.

Do not agree about the bass. Heard it twice and the low frequencies felt constricted. Love Magico but the deep bass was not the way it should be.

microstrip · Nov 30, 2014

FrantzM said:
(...) The Q5 is right there with the best in all regards when driven by adequate amplifers for its definite qirks. (...)

Frantz,
I agree with you - I like the Q5 a lot. But why only very expensive amplifiers seem to be adequate for its "definitive qirks"?

microstrip · Nov 30, 2014

PeterA said:
I think it it certainly possible, especially if they maintain the two distinct lines which seem to cater to different tastes. It's really a quality versus quantity question. I am one of those who prefer the more neutral tonal balance of the Q line and overall sense of transparency. The quality of the bass is outstanding IMO and I would not describe it as lean. It just lacks overhang. But I have a good friend who prefers the slam and bass impact of his S5. He listens to more amplified music than I do, and that may explain it. He is a former Sophia/Sasha/Alexia owner who has switched to the Magico S5.

Isn't Magico already competing extremely successfully with Wilson? Especially considering that they are just now celebrating ten years in business with the M Project speaker. They are firmly established in the industry after a relatively short time. It's pretty impressive.

Since you are directly referring to Wilson speakers with the example of a good friend who all know well

in a Magico thread I will post MHO. The S5 is an easier speaker than the Alexia. But if you feed the Alexia with the proper system and cables, the Wilson Audio speaker it is in a different league for anyone listening mainly to non amplified music. It much more natural sounding, not in sense of being "transparent" to recording, but in the recreation of the perception of the original event.

Also IMHO, at this level of performance the choice of speaker is mostly due to musical preferences, system and room.

BTW, my references are life music and the SoundLabs.

FrantzM · Nov 30, 2014

microstrip said:
Frantz,
I agree with you - I like the Q5 a lot. But why only very expensive amplifiers seem to be adequate for its "definitive qirks"?

I apologize for the typo " Quirks" .. What is deemed "expensive" varies... This said, something like the Bryston 28B, the Pass higher powered Pass for example he Pass X1000.5 , Krell, De Vialet 800, Plinius, other powerful and stable amps. To be on the safe side I would venture at least 500 watts/ch at 8 Ohms and doubling down types, stable amplifiers would likely work well with the Q5. They don't need to be expensive. Those also would work well if they have the required power and stability...

Magico,is too optimistic with their sensitivity ratings.The Q5 is likely a 82~83 dB speaker in real life. The Q7 is probably under 90 dB too.

PeterA · Nov 30, 2014

FrantzM said:
I apologize for the typo " Quirks" .. What is deemed "expensive" varies... This said, something like the Bryston 28B, the Pass higher powered Pass for example he Pass X1000.5 , Krell, De Vialet 800, Plinius, other powerful and stable amps. To be on the safe side I would venture at least 500 watts/ch at 8 Ohms and doubling down types, stable amplifiers would likely work well with the Q5. They don't need to be expensive. Those also would work well if they have the required power and stability...

Magico,is too optimistic with their sensitivity ratings.The Q5 is likely a 82~83 dB speaker in real life. The Q7 is probably under 90 dB too.

I'd like to hear the Pass X600.8 (1200 watts at 4 ohm) with the Q5 and the Pass XA160.8 (320 watts at 4 ohm) with the Q7. One of the problems is that few Magico dealers in the US carry Pass electronics.

Will future Magico models have fuller bass?

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