Hi think the atmaspheres are wonderfulthough a lot lot lot of heat .....
But if you like the fuller sound consider the Soulution 501 as this has virtually no negative feedback 0.1db and so acts more like a SET with 6000 watts instantaneous power!!!
and amazing bass as per J Valin and my own listening
The other to consider is Devialet 800 which i thought was wonderful in multi amp active system, and Jeff Fritz loved with Q7 !
You won't need bi-amping and you get all the benefits of a zero global negative feedback loop in a package as fine as a Vacheron watch. But when I hear how the Arbiter isn't tonally correct and the OP wants to do bi-amping because of it, I think that's the absolute wrong direction and trying to correct a deficiency instead of finding something that works in the first place. I haven't heard the Arbiter (not many have), so I can't really be of more help on that side.
catsl1 legend by andromeda61, on Flickr
Boulder's 3060 amplifier is a Class A amplifier that utilizes 120 output devices to produce 900 watts into any impedance load by andromeda61, on Flickrawsmone- I think both you and Alex are technically correct. Soulution only uses a small amount of feedback at a given point, but over a much, much smaller timeframe---so uses it much more often. I think Halcro did something similar, but its been awhile. Its a high negative feedback model in my opinion, but I'm not that technically savvy- perhaps Ralph can chime in here. In the Stereophile review of the 710, graph 4 speaks to negative feedback use (declining distortion as power increases) and there are some higher order harmonics (albeit very, very low in nature).
asiufy- Magico recommends 50w on the 7s, but really after looking at a score of measurements on the Qs and Ss lately, I think 30w SET is a tall order. The Lamm ML3 really runs well at 10w according to the Sphile measurements and then distortion rises well over 1%. Since SETs have rising distortion because of no feedback, you really want to run them at a fraction of rated power anyways I'd think. Also, Magico tends to overstate efficiency. Hifi News in the Q3 review stated the 3 has a pretty wicked phase angle (-71 degrees at 57hz)- and that the speaker is more like a 3 ohm nominal load, not 4. The 7 is probably more like 90dbs adjusting for impedance but likely also has a similar phase angle in the bass since it and the 3 are of similar cloth as I recall. So can you do 10-15w on a 90db speaker with impedance dips in the 2s? Maybe, but I'd want to hear it first- and since the amp costs like 150k, frankly I'd demand it. My guess is 50w P/P probably would work.
I keep coming to Ralph's power vs voltage paradigm on this as well- the Q7 is definitely the latter. I can totally understand how the Dartzeel 108 has no problems with this speaker. In fact, as you probably assume, I'd recommend the 458s and be done with it
Keith
you mean:-
SOULUTION 501 MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIER: FIRST LISTEN
Powerhouse!
Blog
by Jonathan Valin | Dec 10th, 2012
Categories: Solid-state power amplifiers
One of the secrets to both the 500 Series’ and the 700 Series’ sonic success is standard-settingly lower distortion, achieved by slightly unusual means. Where every other tube and solid-state amp designer I can think of flees from a large amount of negative feedback like the plague, Soulution has rushed to embrace it. It is Soulution’s contention that negative feedback in itself has gotten a bad rap; it isn’t feedback but the time it takes to send the “corrected” signal from the output to the input (technically, propagation delay) that causes the problems. Unless that propagation delay is zero or close to zero, applying feedback will add time-domain errors to the musical signal, since as time goes by (and music doesn’t sit still for a portrait shot) the feedback loop will be “comparing apples at the output to oranges at the input” (in the words of Cyrill Hammer, Soulution’s CEO).
In the 700 Series, Soulution’s, uh, solution to the propagation delay problem was to increase the amp’s bandwidth to the megahertz region and, thereby, increase the speed with which the feedback loop does its thing by a factor of 1000. Most amplifiers and preamplifiers work with a propagation delay of 1–5 microseconds; Soulution’s amplifiers and preamplifiers work with an overall propagation delay of 5–10 nanoseconds, reduced to 1–2 nanoseconds in the voltage amplification stage—where most of the negative feedback is applied. To quote Hammer again: “Since the timing errors of the Soulution amplifiers are negligible, we have the opportunity to apply as much negative feedback as we need wherever it is required in the amplifier without reducing sonic performance. This is how we can lower distortion to never-before-seen levels.”
Lower distortion certainly helps explain the Soulution 501/520’s terrific top-to-bottom clarity and resolution. But the phenomenal distortion numbers alone (THD is less than 0.001% and SNR greater than 120dB) can’t explain why Soulution’s new 500 Series electronics sound so world-beatingly “real” (and exciting) in the bottom octaves. You might think that its power delivery was a matter of sheer watts, but, while more than capable of driving the C 4.1s to louder-than-life levels, the 501s are only rated at 125W into 8 ohms, 250W into 4 ohms, and 500W into 2 ohms. Voltage, amperage, and peak power, however, are different stories.
Yes I think i am aware....lol
the 500 Series circuits differ from those of the 700 Series electronics?
Yes, the Series 5 amplifiers do follow the design principles that are similar to those of their bigger counterparts. The voltage amplifier does work with lowest propagation delays (the best conditions
for applying negative feedback wherever needed)wever, the design of the Series 5 voltage amplifier is less complex. The current stage of
the Series 5 amplifier has just five transistors per side (NPN/PNP) whereas the Series 7 amplifier has seven transistors per side. Therefore the current rating of the 501 mono amplifier and 530 integrated amplifier is limited to 45 ampere (where the 700/710 are capable of 60 ampere).
Like the Series 7 amplifiers the 501 and 530 do have a global negative feedback loop. As the Series 5 amplifiers are very precise in the first place, the amount of feedback required in this loop is very low or close to nonexistent. We apply less than 0.1 dB
of negative feedback. The stability of the fully con- trolled switched-mode power supply unit of the Se- ries 5 amplifiers helps to further reduce this value. Very good tube amplifier designs, with low feedback, usually have more than 10dB in the global feedback loop (100 times more!).
I think if you reread the article its all there
as to the amps Chord's is i believe proprietary not off the shelf so I am guessing Soulution couldn't or didn't want to buy the technology....
And once again i didn't say sounded like SET
Keith
you mean:-
SOULUTION 501 MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIER: FIRST LISTEN
Powerhouse!
Blog
by Jonathan Valin | Dec 10th, 2012
Categories: Solid-state power amplifiers
One of the secrets to both the 500 Series’ and the 700 Series’ sonic success is standard-settingly lower distortion, achieved by slightly unusual means. Where every other tube and solid-state amp designer I can think of flees from a large amount of negative feedback like the plague, Soulution has rushed to embrace it. It is Soulution’s contention that negative feedback in itself has gotten a bad rap; it isn’t feedback but the time it takes to send the “corrected” signal from the output to the input (technically, propagation delay) that causes the problems. Unless that propagation delay is zero or close to zero, applying feedback will add time-domain errors to the musical signal, since as time goes by (and music doesn’t sit still for a portrait shot) the feedback loop will be “comparing apples at the output to oranges at the input” (in the words of Cyrill Hammer, Soulution’s CEO).
In the 700 Series, Soulution’s, uh, solution to the propagation delay problem was to increase the amp’s bandwidth to the megahertz region and, thereby, increase the speed with which the feedback loop does its thing by a factor of 1000. Most amplifiers and preamplifiers work with a propagation delay of 1–5 microseconds; Soulution’s amplifiers and preamplifiers work with an overall propagation delay of 5–10 nanoseconds, reduced to 1–2 nanoseconds in the voltage amplification stage—where most of the negative feedback is applied. To quote Hammer again: “Since the timing errors of the Soulution amplifiers are negligible, we have the opportunity to apply as much negative feedback as we need wherever it is required in the amplifier without reducing sonic performance. This is how we can lower distortion to never-before-seen levels.”
Lower distortion certainly helps explain the Soulution 501/520’s terrific top-to-bottom clarity and resolution. But the phenomenal distortion numbers alone (THD is less than 0.001% and SNR greater than 120dB) can’t explain why Soulution’s new 500 Series electronics sound so world-beatingly “real” (and exciting) in the bottom octaves. You might think that its power delivery was a matter of sheer watts, but, while more than capable of driving the C 4.1s to louder-than-life levels, the 501s are only rated at 125W into 8 ohms, 250W into 4 ohms, and 500W into 2 ohms. Voltage, amperage, and peak power, however, are different stories.
Yes I think i am aware....lol
the 500 Series circuits differ from those of the 700 Series electronics?
Yes, the Series 5 amplifiers do follow the design principles that are similar to those of their bigger counterparts. The voltage amplifier does work with lowest propagation delays (the best conditions
for applying negative feedback wherever needed)wever, the design of the Series 5 voltage amplifier is less complex. The current stage of
the Series 5 amplifier has just five transistors per side (NPN/PNP) whereas the Series 7 amplifier has seven transistors per side. Therefore the current rating of the 501 mono amplifier and 530 integrated amplifier is limited to 45 ampere (where the 700/710 are capable of 60 ampere).
Like the Series 7 amplifiers the 501 and 530 do have a global negative feedback loop. As the Series 5 amplifiers are very precise in the first place, the amount of feedback required in this loop is very low or close to nonexistent. We apply less than 0.1 dB
of negative feedback. The stability of the fully con- trolled switched-mode power supply unit of the Se- ries 5 amplifiers helps to further reduce this value. Very good tube amplifier designs, with low feedback, usually have more than 10dB in the global feedback loop (100 times more!).
I think if you reread the article its all there
as to the amps Chord's is i believe proprietary not off the shelf so I am guessing Soulution couldn't or didn't want to buy the technology....
And once again i didn't say sounded like SET
Thx Keith
But I am not interpreting anything
As these are quotes not my own words
I am merely highlighting areas as you said I wasn't aware of propagation and bandwidth which are clearly in the quotes
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