Cable burn-in: Is it real or imagined?

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I guess the only way to find out is to order 2 pairs of the same cables with one pair having been burned-in. Perhaps there would be an audible difference, but I'm not quite sure if I have an ear that is well-trained enough to perceive it. On the technical side, one could likely show differences between the two, but are they truly audible? If they aren't, does it then even matter?

I don't really want to be a sceptic with regard to this as I beleive that cables can/do make an audible difference.

What has been your experience?
 
Last edited:

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
IMHO, definitely.

In talking with the designer / manufacturer of the cables I use (DH Labs), its the "dielectric" that needs to be broken in. There may be other factors that I'm not aware of.

Whether or not there's a major change in sound (and time required) is going to be manufacturer dependent.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
IMHO, definitely.

In talking with the designer / manufacturer of the cables I use (DH Labs), its the "dielectric" that needs to be broken in. There may be other factors that I'm not aware of.

Whether or not there's a major change in sound (and time required) is going to be manufacturer dependent.
So have you noticed a difference or are you only providing the opinion of the manufacturer? I want to know if you as the end-user have noticed a difference.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
My experience is that many cables need break-in. It is not documented or scientific. The physical effects associated to cable burnin are known, but many people will tell you that the magnitude is so low that it can not be audible. However, using the same argument they will also tell you that there is no differences between "competent" cables. The methods to evaluate "small differences" will give us an enless debate...
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
My experience is that many cables need break-in. It is not documented or scientific. The physical effects associated to cable burnin are known, but many people will tell you that the magnitude is so low that it can not be audible. However, using the same argument they will also tell you that there is no differences between "competent" cables. The methods to evaluate "small differences" will give us an enless debate...

I started this thread as it was you who asked me if I had proof that it didn't matter. I'd like to find out if people here feel it does. You say (see bolded) that cables need break in, but you don't say if you have expereinced it yourself.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
I don't expect to provide a definitive answer to this question. I know however that we, humans, get used to things pretty quickly. Our senses are unreliable and our brain compensate based on various factors (time of the day, emotions in particular, expectations, etc...) The material will not change a bit but we will assigned it all kind of sonic characters ...
Conclusion if one can afford a certain cable and after a while like it .. More power, more enjoyment, more pleasure to him/herfrom his/her hobby. Never has been a life issue .. as for material changes ...
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Your test will reveal a difference if its a real effect in your imagination OR you have been exposed to advertising of that effect. If I were to bet money under sight unknown listening tests, using two pairs of the same cables that are truly identical with one pair "burned in", my money would be on you not hearing any differences statistically, and me either.

I'm with you on this. I think the differences are so minute(sp) to be inaudible.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
Yep, ears are great things, but they have physical boundaries and then when you throw in the ear/brain interface then we are really into unknown territory, as if you are told you can hear a difference, and you believe, by golly you will hear a difference! (sight seen that is.....take away knowledge and now you don't know when you are supposed to hear a difference.... ah ahahahah).

Oh No! You didn't .. No! You! Did ! NOT!! ... summon the hated "blind" thing :D
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,368
4,410
I guess the only way to find out is to order 2 pairs of the same cables with one pair having been burned-in. Perhaps there would be an audible difference, but I'm not quite sure if I have an ear that is well-trained enough to perceive it. On the technical side, one could likely show differences between the two, but are they truly audible? If they aren't, does it then even matter?

I don't really want to be a sceptic with regard to this as I beleive that cables can/do make an audible difference.

What has been your experience?

I use a cable break in device, the Cable Cooker. I've owned other cable break in devices in the past including the Nordost CBID-1.

just like the audible difference between cables, there are audible differences as cables break in. and just as two cables can sound so similar as to sound the same, some cables don't change much during break in. but most cable do change during break in. the most significant issue as to break in time is the thickness of the conductor; I have observed that my heaviest gauge cables can require weeks on the Cable Cooker while a lightweight phono cable might only need a day or so to be optimal.

I could give a rip what anyone else thinks about this and have no need to convince anyone about it at all.

the process for using the cable cooker is to 'cook' until there is no more improvement you can hear. i will put it on the cooker and give it a few days to a week depending on the gauge and then listen. then do it again and listen again. i will keep repeating this process until it gets worse. then give it time to settle and try it again. if it still gets worse I'm done and the cable will settle down at it it's optimal. with my triple run Evolution Acoustics speaker and power cables they took three weeks on the cooker but they are the highest gauge cables i know of. three days to a week is common.

using music only break in comes in stages; typically (1) 1-2 hours, then (2) 2-24 hours, (3) 1 day to 2 weeks, (4) 2 weeks to 3 months, (5) about 6 months. that is a very approximate pattern i have observed. with the first 2 stages being 75-80% of the break-in.

if you are a doubter about cable differences or even break in and want an easy way to hear it.....get involved in different phono cables. the tiny signal is super sensitive to any changes and so has a significant effect on performance. my cable cooker has special hookups that allow for phono cable break in since the phono signal is so small.
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
2,067
8
0
Dallas, Texas
Yes is the answer. But dealers and reviewers are best trained to hear it. Dealers can hear breakin during the return period and reviewers can hear it better than anyone during an extended review.;)
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
So have you noticed a difference or are you only providing the opinion of the manufacturer? I want to know if you as the end-user have noticed a difference.

Yes.

In my experience, new cables tends to be somewhat limited in frequency response and dynamic range. Typical sonic indicators are a thinness to the overall sound and lack of weight in the lower frequencies. As things break in, there is a noticeable improvement of frequency response coherency over the spectrum, a noticeable increase in overall warmth and musicality, not to mention dimensionality and soundstaging.

And for the record, I never rely on what any manufacturer says and trust my ears to be the final arbiter.
 

jazdoc

Member Sponsor
Aug 7, 2010
3,320
730
1,200
Bellevue
It can't be real if you can't measure it.
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
I hope / trust you are joking. ;)

If not, I can see where this thread is going.
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
What outcomes do you expect in this thread anyway? I think there are two, perhaps three answers to the OP question, yes, no, maybe.

Jazdoc said something interesting I think, that is: It can't be real if you can't measure it. (joking or not mox nix)

So, if you consider your ears measuring devices, and your ear/brain interface to remember, quoting a few posts previous, that one can hear the effects of break in over a course of up to 6 months, then pray tell me who of you can remember the sounds you heard 6 months ago

You are correct regarding outcomes.

I never said cables take six months to break in. That's an obscene amount of time if that's true, shame on the manufacturer if that is the case.

My experience in my system, two weeks max to hear / complete the cable breakin process.

And as Mike said, I could care less if anyone believes me and I have no desire to convince anyone of anything. Too tedious and way too boring not to mention a waist of time.

Purely my experience and subjective observations thereof.

PS: And it does beg the question of why this type thread continues to appear again, and again, and again.

SIGH!
 
Last edited:

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
35
970
Midwest fly over state..
I asked the question of a mfr of tweak devices and he said 200 to 300 hours which pretty much screws you on his 30 day return policy...ha ha
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
I asked the question of a mfr of tweak devices and he said 200 to 300 hours which pretty much screws you on his 30 day return policy...ha ha

There was a thread about a cable that needed 1000~2000 hours ... by then the unlucky owner should have found another cable but ...
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
I started this thread as it was you who asked me if I had proof that it didn't matter. I'd like to find out if people here feel it does. You say (see bolded) that cables need break in, but you don't say if you have expereinced it yourself.

Surely I have experienced it, sorry if I was not clear. As I had several pairs of Shunyata Antares ICs I compared them old and well used with brand new. Nordost Valhalla cables needed a lot of burnin - taken from the box they were a little edgy. But these tests were not blind, I do not expect non believers to change their minds on my words. ;)

BTW, IMHO you notice small differences if you have a very well tuned system. In a poorly matched system, that only plays adequately bass, middle and treble, all will sound almost the same.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
IMO you hear smaller and smaller difference if YOU are IN TUNE with your system :) Place me in an unfamiliar room and system and I will have nothing but guesses as to what is doing what. In my own system I can immediately tell new vs burned in. Then again it's easy when you have your own cables and routinely check new cables for pre-delivery inspection.
 

MtnHam

Industry Expert
Jan 12, 2014
275
50
335
Nothern California Wine Country
When cables are changed out there is normally a period of about 24-48 hours while they settle in and stabilize. During this time I have almost always experienced changes, and thus would not judge until then. After that, the changes are likely to be subtle and minor. If there is a character attributable to the cable, it should be clear by now. I doubt there is anything measurable here, except by the ear.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
When cables are changed out there is normally a period of about 24-48 hours while they settle in and stabilize. During this time I have almost always experienced changes, and thus would not judge until then. After that, the changes are likely to be subtle and minor. If there is a character attributable to the cable, it should be clear by now. I doubt there is anything measurable here, except by the ear.

I agree.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing