A TechDAS AFO review by the late Harry Pearson

Johnny Vinyl

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AF0 ? You Dawg. Is there any progress on the design ? How far out is the production model ?

How come I don't see yours listed yet? You know you're gonna get one!:p
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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How come I don't see yours listed yet? You know you're gonna get one!:p

While the TT may be more massive than the AF1, I am not convinced it will have better isolation than my table being I use a Table Stable active isolation table that actively damps down to .7 Hz. I implore nishakawa San to build that level of isolation into his new stand for the AFO. I have no desire to change my table. I am keeping it for life.:cool:
When I start tracking my GT3 this summer, I will be spending money in that area. I have only the pre to upgrade and I'm done...
 

DEV

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Oct 19, 2011
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I have no desire to change my table. I am keeping it for life.:cool: I have only the pre to upgrade and I'm done...

:D:D:D:D only time will tell - there will be allot more going on than just isolation :D it's all hush for now ;)
 

JackD201

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Dangit Christian, me too!
 

PeterA

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Perhaps Dev became interested in the Walker after reading all about it in that other thread.

Seriously, why sell a table which you admit is your favorite only to wait until the better version comes out at some unspecified time, at an unspecified price? What about the music, what about the hobby, what are you going to listen to in the mean time? I think there is more to the story, which is fine, it is his business.

These retail for around $100K, but I'm sure they can be bought new at a substantial discount, just like any other high ticket audio item. Someone who really wants a good AF1 will contact DEV, negotiate a price, get a pretty good deal and be mighty happy.

The AF0 should be an amazing table. SME is moving in a similar direction. They are developing an isolation stand/table for their tables. Like TechDas, they realize that the isolation in the table is not enough. Christian found that out. He has the air bladders within the table, the custom HRS platform under the table and the active platform under that, all on top of a nice purpose built rack. The AF0 may incorporate the equivalent of all of that in one package plus improvements to the platter, power supply, second or third arm board, etc. I'm sure the designer has ideas about active versus passive isolation, just as he does about belt drive versus direct drive. TechDas may also include their own arm and cartridge as a package in this super table. $150-200K and all you need is a phono stage.

I think there may be a bigger difference between the AF0 and the AF1 than there is between the AF1 and the AF2. But it might be a very long wait to find out what those differences are.
 

DEV

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Oct 19, 2011
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Perhaps Dev became interested in the Walker after reading all about it in that other thread.

Ha! Ha! No

Seriously, why sell a table which you admit is your favorite only to wait until the better version comes out at some unspecified time, at an unspecified price? What about the music, what about the hobby, what are you going to listen to in the mean time? I think there is more to the story, which is fine, it is his business..

Wow! Crazy thoughts :D Don't worry so much - I own another new table which has never been set-up and will hold me over, had it commissioned prior to buying the AF1 - I knew about the AF1 table three years prior to it being available and waited.

These retail for around $100K, but I'm sure they can be bought new at a substantial discount, just like any other high ticket audio item. Someone who really wants a good AF1 will contact DEV, negotiate a price, get a pretty good deal and be mighty happy.


Yes someone will be very happy indeed.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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I bought a lottery ticket for tomorrow! Wish me luck! :D
 

the sound of Tao

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The AF1 is clearly one of the current icons of audio so I'm a bit staggered as to why HP gave it only 7/10 for musicality at the end of the review. Traditionally in assessment benchmarks a 70% ranks as just barely creditable. This seems a most extraordinary indictment on its performance in a most important criteria for this type of gear. Very strange.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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That is an interesting observation. Do you have a theory as to why?

It is interesting, also, that the reviews of the TechDAS turntables glow with comments articulated in typical high-end audio terms such as detail, imaging and dynamics. But one does not read about smoothness or continuity or soulfulness or the cryptic "musicality." Is TechDAS another example of advanced Japanese technology where the parts are better than the whole?

PS: Yes, I am intending to be a bit of a troublemaker with this post.
 

JackD201

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Don't worry Ron I don't think anybody here is thinking you're a troublemaker. Tao's observation is a good one and so is your follow up question.

I think it is a question of philosophy. TechDAS's and Micro-Seiki's before it is to minimize coloration as much as possible. In other words the simple but difficult goal of having a quiet table that spins at the right speed that keeps the record as flat as possible in the most user friendly way possible. I have a buddy that loves his LP12 more than his M-S 5000 so none of this is really news to me as I've known him since before TechDAS came out. As we all know, all tables have a signature or two or three. I still love my TW AC-3. It has a sweetness to it as well as a forgiving nature without imposing too much. I like it so much that I decided not to sell it and instead use it in the vacation home my wife and I are planning. I guess I'm saying that there are colorations and there are colorations and I'll be darned if the good colorations can't be as addicting as say dynamics. The TechDAS really is short on colorations both bad AND good. You'll hear a decay fade into your rooms noisefloor very easily but unlike the TW it does so in a way a guy would be walking to his car. Point A to Point B. Done. No additional flair. The TW does add that flair and it is this very reason I switched to it from my HRX which like the AF1 is dare I say "formal" in its delivery. I'm not saying these two tables sound stiff. Far from it. They aren't , oh boy I hate this term "PRAT" -ty tables but if you put on a dry sounding recording you're not gonna get a SI swimsuit model coming out of the ocean. So I can see where HP came from with his rating. Maybe not a 7 for me more like an 8 but I do have triodes in every piece of gear I'm using at the moment. SI swimsuit models if I go say Mullard, Valvo or Amperex and sexy strict librarian with Telefunkens and Siemens :D

A baby rant: ;)

We dealers often get chided for coming to our products rescue too much or worse outright shilling. Well, we are invested both emotionally because most of us truly believe in their merits and financially because we do put our money where are mouths are. I can't speak for all of us but business wise our job is simply to provide choices THAT WORK for our clients, not what works for us. We have some clients that liked everything so much they've bought entire systems that we'd curated and assembled right off the floor, once even at a show that we'de had on display. Mind you this is an EXTREME rarity, differences in preference and priorities being what they are. For the most part, sometimes they like what we have to offer, sometimes they don't. It's just the way it is.

The true disservice to the customer is to impose our personal visions, philosophies, criteria on them against their own instincts. Not only do they end up with the dreaded case of buyer's remorse, you'll eventually get blamed for it wasting the opportunity of building a long standing business relationship based on trust which invariably result in true friendships. No quick sale is worth that.

Rant over :D
 
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Altanpsx

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Sep 10, 2014
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From Harry Pearson comments about af1;

You quite simply get closer to the experience of the music itself and, ironically, forget about the sonics per se.

And musicality 7. What is musicality, what makes a component musical. Hearing too much details makes it analytic, awaring sonics too much(bass,mid,highs) makes a system dynamic, getting closer to music makes it what ?

I felt the same each and everytime I listened af1 and af2 (1 is better). You live in the music and the silky highs or tight lows are not your concerns, they are just a part of another thing(whole better than the parts), the music. I think this which makes a component musical. Maybe my perspective is different/wrong. Maybe what makes a component musical is a another thing.
 

Ron Resnick

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Dear Jack,

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed explanation.

I agree completely that it is a question of philosophy. The objective of a turntable's design is a matter of philosophy, and the sound we audiophiles choose to create with our systems also is a matter of philosophy.

From my current system choices of VPI TNT (generally heard as having a warmish bottom end), Benz Ruby 2 (generally heard as having a slightly forgiving tonal balance) and tubes everywhere I prefer a system which recreates sound which is on the slightly warm/forgiving end of the spectrum. That type of sound sounds to me like live music sounds to me, and not like "hi-fi."

A turntable which is short on colorations scares me a little bit. However, my alternative selection (Basis Audio Inspiration and Superarm 9) also is not known for adding warm colorations to the sound.

I do not think that that was a rant at all (not even a baby rant). In Manhattan I knew Michael Kay (Lyric Hi-Fi), Andy Singer (Sound By Singer) and, to a lesser extent, Elliot Fishkin (Innovative Audio). In LA I am honored to know Brian Berdan and Randy Cooley. I think your approach to being a dealer is absolutely the correct approach.
 

Ron Resnick

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Dear Altanpsx,

I think your definition of musical is a bulls-eye. A system which allows us to forget the discrete elements of sound and to lose ourselves in the music is a beautiful definition of "musicality."
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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I did have some trouble reconciling Harry Pearson's choice of a 7 out of 10 probably because I work in teaching and without going all too academically anal typically this kind of percentile in assessement terms often essentially expresses a borderline credit (say if you set 5/10 as a pass and something above 8.5/10 as approaching a distinction).

Just a partial credit in such a significant criteria certainly doesn't fit my understanding of the AF1 or AF2. I don't at all doubt the quality of these tables nor Harry's quality as reviewer, all are clearly performers par excellence. Having read Harry since the late 80's I also don't doubt at times his capacity to exaggerate to clarify but even if he had sought to make a point and just given an 8/10 in terms of musicality he would still have clearly made a definite point here. High Distinction in assessment as a benchmark often indicates some specific areas of brilliance but generally beyond that the benchmark should aim to also have essentially no significant weaknesses. In the scheme of things there is really nothing life ending here but I also know how much people who assess regularly generally take some thought in the awarding between these 10 per cent intervals, a 6 versus a 7 or 7 versus a 8 are all sufficiently significant.

Jack's and Altanpsx great comments on musicality help bring more light but Ron I am still a bit confused (normal operating status) tho also not too concerned as clearly there can be no one definition of musicality as far as how it is implied by audiophiles.

I am with Altanpsx and also see musicality not as a separate component of the sound but simply as a fundamental characteristic of the whole. Musicality is a quality for me not so much because of what is experienced as present within the sound but rather what is absent, that is, any element of the sound that distracts you from the context and the spirit of the musical performance. So Jack's swimsuit mullard girl and sexy strict telefunken librarian are both sufficiently present in some way both in the experience the spirit of their personalities but also literally apparent in the context of the physical elements of their varying beauty and allure.

In the end I kind of assign the 7/10 for musicality as an interesting discrepancy and mostly just a Harry thing which neither diminishes the ultimate achievement of the AFs nor our enjoyment of Harry and what he did for our joyful and at times troubling pursuit; that is trying to put in to words what we can hear in the music.
 

Ron Resnick

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Dear Sound of Tao,

I think your conclusion that it was just a "Harry thing" is highly plausible!
 

XV-1

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I think HP's hearing must of been failing him on the just satisfactory musicality grade....a very subjective term to begin with.


Perhaps because Harry was not allowed to keep the AF-1 as a long term loan :D
 

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