Koetsu lineup

Roysen

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I am a little confused by the hierarchy of the Koetsu Platinum lineup. Can someone help me.

We have these models:

Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum
Koetsu Onyx Platinum
Koetsu Azule Platinum
Koetsu Bloodstone Platinum
Koetsu Tigerseye Platinum
Koetsu Jade Platinum
Koetsu Coralstone Platinum
Koetsu Blue Onyx Platinum

It seems all these have a stone body except the Rosewood Signature Platinum which have a body of wood?

Then there is the Koetsu Blue Lace which it seems are not part of the Platinum series but at a level above?

Can someone put these in hierarchy correct order and also fill in any missing models?

I am about to invest in two of these cartridges and wonder which to choose. I am at the moment thinking about the Jade Platinum and Coralstone Platinum, both with the diamond cantilever upgrade which it seems is only is available to the Platinum series and because of that not to the Blue Lace. I want the very best they have to offer.

The Blue Onyx Platinum is new to me with the recent review in HiFi+. I had never heard of it before. I at first thought it might possibly be the same as the Blue Lace, but now I don't think so. Anyone who knows? Blue Onyx Platinum does not have but can be upgraded with diamond cantilever. So I guess its not the same as a Blue Lace.
 
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rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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I am a little confused by the hierarchy of the Koetsu Platinum lineup. Can someone help me.

We have these models:

Koetsu Onyx Platinum
Koetsu Azule Platinum
Koetsu Bloodstone Platinum
Koetsu Tigerseye Platinum
Koetsu Jade Platinum
Koetsu Coralstone Platinum
Koetsu Blue Onyx Platinum

Then there is the Koetsu Blue Lace which it seems are not part of the Platinum series but at a level above.

Can someone put these in hierarcical correct order and also fill in any missing models.

I am about to invest in two of these cartridges and wonder which to choose. I sm at the moment thinkkng about the Jade Platinum and Coralstone Platinum, both with the diamond cantilever upgrade which it seems is only is available to the Platinum series and because of that not to the Blue Lace.

The Blue Onyx Platinum is new to me with the recent review in HiFi+. I had never heard of it before. I at first thought it might possible be the same as the Blue Lace, but now I don't think so. Anyone who knows.

Blue Lace #1 as it has the diamond cantilever
Coralstone #2, can be optioned with diamond cantilever
Tiger Eye #3
Azule #4

I own 2 Coralstones and 1 Tiger eye. Overall, Koetsu are still my favorite stereo carts if I had to pick.
Jade & Onyx are at the lower end of the stone body lineup. My dealer had a diamond cantilever on a Coralstone and prefers the boron. He felt diamond cantilevers make them a bit sizzley/hot on top.
 

Roysen

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Thanks! Is Blue Lace and Blue Onyx the same? What about Bloodstone in the hierarchy?
 

rockitman

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Thanks! Is Blue Lace and Blue Onyx the same? What about Bloodstone in the hierarchy?

Bloodstone is the same msrp as Azule, so I would assume they are on par with one another. Onyx and Jade are now priced the same. I'm not sure about Blue Onyx...could be referring to the Blue Lace.

Personally, I would go for Coralstone. Not sure $10k more for the Lace is worth it...albeit $5k of the cost is for the diamond cantilever alone.

edit: The Blue lace standard has a boron cantilever for $20k...I am not sure what the extra $5k gives you over coralstone. With diamond cantilever the Lace is $25K.
 

Roysen

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I think I know now. Blue Onyx is without the diamond cantilever while Blue Lace is with diamond cantilever.
 

rockitman

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I don't even see half of these on Jaime's site.

Pelotone LLC

EDIT: Found this on his site. White Paper

White paper is interesting...all the same specs as all the other stoners. I imagine stone choice imparts some flavor differences. Since the cart motors are individually made by hand, I think what differentiates the top of the line are final spec tolerences. Those farther out of spec motors are put in the lower level stone options, ect. The stones are no big deal regardless of stone type from a cost to build perspective, imo.. They are not precious stones. My educated guesses only.
 

Bruce B

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White paper is interesting...all the same specs as all the other stoners. I imagine stone choice imparts some flavor differences. Since the cart motors are individually made by hand, I think what differentiates the top of tjhe line are final spec tolerences. Those farther out of spec motors are put in the lower level stone options, ect. The stones are no big deal regardless of stone type from a cost to build perspective, imo.. They are not precious stones. My educated guesses only.

I've wondered how each stone body is $5k better than the next.
 
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PeterA

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I heard a story about a gentleman shopping for a cartridge. He heard three demo cartridges. Two were of the same model and one was a better model, from the same manufacturer. All were on copies of the same arm on the same turntable. When he was finished, he selected one of the two versions of the lower model as his favorite. He told the dealer than he was not interested in a new in the box version but insisted on the EXACT cartridge that he heard moments earlier. The point being that he was well aware of tiny differences between these ultra high end, hand built cartridges. He bought the same cartridge that he heard demoed.
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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I heard a story about a gentleman shopping for a cartridge. He heard three demo cartridges. Two were of the same model and one was a better model, from the same manufacturer. All were on copies of the same arm on the same turntable. When he was finished, he selected one of the two versions of the lower model as his favorite. He told the dealer than he was not interested in a new in the box version but insisted on the EXACT cartridge that he heard moments earlier. The point being that he was well aware of tiny differences between these ultra high end, hand built cartridges. He bought the same cartridge that he heard demoed.

This does not surprised me...what does is that we don't read about this more
 

JackD201

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I believe the stone used for the Blue Lace is Agate not Onyx. They are closely related but not the same.
 

jadis

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Apr 28, 2010
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Having distributed the Koetsu line in the Philippines for about 5 years, what I can say about the company is that as far as getting technical information is concerned, Koetsu is a stingy one. I dealt with the South East Asian Regional Distributor who is based in Singapore and when I brought in the first batch of cartridges to satisfy the dealer's quota, I was not furnished with anything. Not even a piece of technical spec paper or any promotional brochure. Each question from a prospective customer has to be emailed individually and it takes a few days to get a reply, which at best is still fuzzy and at worst warrants no reply. Is this part of the Koetsu mystique? Blessed are those who actually know the exact address of Sugano San in Japan. My regional dealer is one such person. And he calls Sugano to ask my questions. As for the model hierarchy, what I know that it's determined by price, which is set by the USA distributor, in those earlier times - Acoustic Sounds. The top line then, circa 2006, was the Tiger Eye Diamond which listed for $13,000. A few months later, the Coral Stone Platinum and Blue Lace Platinum came out, listed by AS at $15,000 and $20,000 respectively. It is quite hard to monetarily justify the incremental price increases vis a vis the sonic performance. By this time I have not quite remembered the differences of each but to say a little here or there. I can say that you can't go wrong with ANY of the stone bodied carts. Which is not to say something is wrong with the wood bodies. I myself have been using a Rosewood Signature for 8 years running now and feel very gratified by its performance. I would be happy to get any stone models someday. Loading can be done by ear. Some like 100 ohms, some 40 ohms. Perhaps it's system dependent too. I personally love the Jade when it was tested in my own room, compared to the Rosewood Signature, Rosewood Platinum and the Coralstone Platinum for it had the fullest and most heavenly sound I have heard. The Tiger Eye and Blue Lace I have heard in other systems so I cannot really make comparative assessment on them as the associated gears were different. I have heard many brands on many systems but so far none has captivated me enough to warrant a change in my present Rosewood Signature cartridge. The latest I heard was Transfiguration Proteus at a local HiFi Show a few days ago.
 
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JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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Within a 1 kilometer radius from me are Tiger Eyes, Coralstones in mono and stereo, Onyx's and my Jade. My brother has a Blue Lace. I owned an Urushi Gold in the past. Of all I found the Jade most dynamic and the tigers and laces the most filigreed. The Coralstones in the middle. This is consistent with the MOHs ratings of the body materials, the Jade being the densest and the Lace the least so.
 
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Within a 1 kilometer radius from me are Tiger Eyes, Coralstones in mono and stereo, Onyx's and my Jade. My brother has a Blue Lace. I owned an Urushi Gold in the past. Of all I found the Jade most dynamic and the tigers and laces the most filigreed. The Coralstones in the middle. This is consistent with the MOHs ratings of the body materials, the Jade being the densest and the Lace the least so.
Jack, how would you describe the difference between the Blue Lace & Tiger Eye?
 

Yeti

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Dec 25, 2020
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The gradation in price of the stone bodied Koetsus seems to be a US invention, they’re all £8500 in the UK including the blue lace agate, though presumably not the diamond cantilever version. The Urushis are between £4500 and £5000 but it varies with dealer rather than model.
 

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