802 Diamond Deficencies?

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,010
2
0
I bet it would be interesting to hear the 802d and their more expensive models with the Devialet and the associated SAM profiles.
Cheers
Orb
 

DSkip

Industry Expert
Aug 26, 2013
442
194
350
Arlington, TX
www.audiothesis.com
The only B&W speaker I've heard that engaged me was the PM1, which has a completely different voicing than their go-to sound. I have a question for those who say these have sounded great with the right gear: was the fatiguing nature of the speaker tamed?
 

wes

New Member
Jan 24, 2013
30
0
0
www.blu-ray.com
The only B&W speaker I've heard that engaged me was the PM1, which has a completely different voicing than their go-to sound. I have a question for those who say these have sounded great with the right gear: was the fatiguing nature of the speaker tamed?

Never fatigued by the sound!
 

DSkip

Industry Expert
Aug 26, 2013
442
194
350
Arlington, TX
www.audiothesis.com
Never fatigued by the sound!

That must be one hell of a movie experience in your room.

This is similar to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?". My 801Ds aren't fatiguing either, running them via the Krell EV403.

Lee

It's not meant to be and I apologize if it came across that way. Of the two dozen or so chances to hear B&W, I've never had an experience that kept me in the seat due to a harsh top end. I haven't had a chance to hear any with top end Classe or Krell yet, so its possible I just experienced a plethora of bad synergy.
 

Vette

New Member
Feb 2, 2014
18
0
0
There are over 900 brands of speakers around the world. Opinions about speakers are like the wind, they blow in all directions. B&W has one of the oldest and largest research and engineering departments in the world, yet some here would have you believe they don't know how to build a quality speaker.
 

DHL

New Member
Apr 20, 2015
16
6
0
B&W has one of the oldest and largest research and engineering departments in the world, yet some here would have you believe they don't know how to build a quality speaker.

Some say the same about JBL. Some folks love them and some hate them.

Back in the early 80's I had a pair of JBL L212s which I modified and dearly loved. Kept them for many years and finally had to move on after their surrounds disintegrated. I ended up with B&W 804s (non-"d"), and then 803Ds (not the latest iteration), since these tended to match the JBL dynamics and transient response the best, although without the imaging of the L212. The 804s sounded quite good although with a more restricted sound field (I could never get sound images out beyond the boundary of the speakers), so I purchased 804Ds because I was told the upper end was sweeter, and the bass response better. I use a subwoofer (HSU 1500) with the B&Ws, with their bass ports blocked with rubber balls to reduce phasing problems with the sub.

I struggled, however, with the upper end brightness which I later discovered was electronics related. That diamond driver is incredibly revealing of any high end distortion and garbage produced by the electronics. Particularly irritating was close mic'd female vocal sibilance. After switching to Class A discrete line amps and D/As, and removing any operational amplifier based stages, my high end irritation issues were gone. I have to place both 803Ds about 13' apart and 3' from any wall. Closer together and I get a high frequency reinforcement due to the output of the dome tweeters. The sound image left to right still appears to be limited to about a foot or so outside the left or right speaker. I have the speakers mounted on 2' diameter x 4" thick maple butcher block platforms, with 2" diameter brass footers between the speaker and the platform, and 3" diameter brass footers (in a tripod configuration) under the platforms. These butcher block platforms have significantly cleaned up the clarity and imaging of the 803Ds, while also providing a much broader mechanical base on carpet to reduce the tendency of these speakers to tip over if bumped.

I was considering an upgrade to the 802Ds, but their sheer mass makes them difficult for me to move around (the 803Ds are more than heavy enough) and place in my home.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
968
375
1,625
71
Chicagoland
My B&W 802 Diamond Impressions

I heard these a couple of years ago at a familiar local dealer which does a good business from the B&W line. To me, the upper frequencies sounded just about the way I would expect, given Stereophile's measurements of the more expensive B&W 800 Diamond. See figure 4 at this page. For example, on very familiar discs which I've used for testing purposes for years, soprano voices had too much sibilance and struck cymbals had too much crash, sizzle, and air compared to the strike sound. Not a terrible sounding upper range, but not something I would want to hear every day, and especially not for $15,000+.

Peaky high-end response is all too common in expensive, audiophile-oriented speakers today. B&W is by no means alone in making expensive speakers which measure and sound this way compared to real unamplified music. And many people seem to like them a lot, so B&W has little incentive to offer a "more musical" balance. Tastes change. Today, few people seem to like speakers with an easy, relaxed high frequency range, such as you get with Harbeth or Stirling speakers, which I greatly prefer in tonal balance to the current B&W offerings. Today, there seems to be greater concern about SPL capability than on musicality.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
I heard these a couple of years ago at a familiar local dealer which does a good business from the B&W line. To me, the upper frequencies sounded just about the way I would expect, given Stereophile's measurements of the more expensive B&W 800 Diamond. See figure 4 at this page. For example, on very familiar discs which I've used for testing purposes for years, soprano voices had too much sibilance and struck cymbals had too much crash, sizzle, and air compared to the strike sound. Not a terrible sounding upper range, but not something I would want to hear every day, and especially not for $15,000+.

Peaky high-end response is all too common in expensive, audiophile-oriented speakers today. B&W is by no means alone in making expensive speakers which measure and sound this way compared to real unamplified music. And many people seem to like them a lot, so B&W has little incentive to offer a "more musical" balance. Tastes change. Today, few people seem to like speakers with an easy, relaxed high frequency range, such as you get with Harbeth or Stirling speakers, which I greatly prefer in tonal balance to the current B&W offerings.

Today, there seems to be greater concern about SPL capability than on musicality.

Curse of the cheap watts or years of listening to earbuds & digital? I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the diamond tweeters Tom.

david
 

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
1,509
576
540
Sadly have to Agree on the B+W Diamonds 800/802s--I have friend with them and the ear fatigue is near on immediate--an altogether a rather flawed product--pity they do Bass pretty well

I used to own the Silver Signatures--now that WAS a great Speaker--those Diamond Dogs are just that in my book--sorry to offend:(

I would not have them-

Carry on chaps

BruceD
 
Last edited:

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
A good acquaintance owns the 802 diamond and loves them. He owns a tube CD player (ARC CD8) and Dartzeel CH8550 and the system sounds very agreeable without any sibilance or excessive treble. He is using Kubala Sosna cables with them. But I also prefer my B&W silver signature SS25 with their flat treble.

I have read in a review than many manufacturers have speakers with a rising high treble because many consumers do not accept to toe-in speakers for cosmetic reasons and they need to compensate for off-axis listening. Also typical UK living rooms are high absorptive, with heavy curtains and large sofas.
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,010
2
0
......

I have read in a review than many manufacturers have speakers with a rising high treble because many consumers do not accept to toe-in speakers for cosmetic reasons and they need to compensate for off-axis listening. Also typical UK living rooms are high absorptive, with heavy curtains and large sofas.
Yeah definitely agree with that, I feel like my other half has gone for cushions the size of elephant's backside!
And compounded by big plush-comfy sofas (which I notice seems to be a bit of a trend here in the UK - with those I know or visited anyway).
Cheers
Orb
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
I have read in a review than many manufacturers have speakers with a rising high treble because many consumers do not accept to toe-in speakers for cosmetic reasons and they need to compensate for off-axis listening. Also typical UK living rooms are high absorptive, with heavy curtains and large sofas.

Micro, I highly recommend that you take anything you read by this guy with huge dose of salt! His excuse is rubbish and incorrect! The first thing you lose with toe-in is dispersion, by focusing the sound in the middle. Rarely, if ever did I set up a speaker with any toe-in at all in my life, even near field. Plush furniture have been for a very long time, they're not new. In the case of diamond tweeters I've never heard the integrate properly in any speaker. When I was distributing Kharma speakers I used to actively discourage clients from opting for that option.

david
 
Last edited:

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
1,509
576
540
Ha David, I gather then you won't be using the Speaker Setup mantra according to your fellow "Utaharian"(sic!) DAW anytime soon:D

Had chuckle about that --a WASP free Zone!

Good one--I actually agree with your comment

BruceD
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948
It would be interesting to see a list of gear used and EXACT model B&W being listened to from those who are reporting harsh highs and other undesireable sounds emitting from the B&W speakers they auditioned. Almost anyone can say, at one point or another, many years and revisions ago, speaker brand "X" sounded harsh or bass shy. Fill in the "X" with any brand and it will apply.

Fortunatly for me I don't seem to have any of these harshness or lack of bass issues being reported from the B&W 803 Diamonds sitting in front of me now (latest versions). As others here and elsewhere have said, they need wattage. If the demo'r wasn't feeding them enough wattage then you didn't really hear them at their best. I'm talking MANY hundreds of SS watts RMS. Don't even bother listening if all you have is a flea watt tube amp or a 100watt SS that may work elseware as your simply wasting everyone's time involved in the audition.

Like everything else in audio decisions need to be made before you purchase a given component. The guy who drops $200K on Wilson Audio's latest masterpiece is also awarded with the ability to power them with the previously mentioned flea watt amp. On the other hand, the guy who wishes to use B&W's 800 series speakers as his front end now has to spend at least another $20k to power them properly. In the end both system can sound great but they each need to be given a level playing field to play on.
 

Sencha

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2013
110
13
323
U.K.
The further I explore set up, the further my 802 diamonds reveal themselves to me. What I'm hearing now through the them I didn't think possible a few months ago. They are an explicit sounding but in no way harsh at all. I drive them with a Dartzeel 18/108 using both cd and vinyl and they sound wonderful. I have heard several iterations of them and harsh is not something I would describe them as. So they may not be perfect but they at least are very competent and very revealing. Set up/placement of my system has changed their sound dramatically without touching the speakers at all. I would encourage most people who are in the market for a speaker of this value to dem them as they do a lot right. They may not be for all but when set up well in a good system they can sound startlingly good.
 

Sencha

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2013
110
13
323
U.K.
Will be interesting to hear how the new 802 D3 fairs against the rest. I believe they will be around £18,500 so somewhere in the mid to high twenties for you US guys. They should be in dealers by next week I am told.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
The further I explore set up, the further my 802 diamonds reveal themselves to me. What I'm hearing now through the them I didn't think possible a few months ago. They are an explicit sounding but in no way harsh at all. I drive them with a Dartzeel 18/108 using both cd and vinyl and they sound wonderful. I have heard several iterations of them and harsh is not something I would describe them as. So they may not be perfect but they at least are very competent and very revealing. Set up/placement of my system has changed their sound dramatically without touching the speakers at all. I would encourage most people who are in the market for a speaker of this value to dem them as they do a lot right. They may not be for all but when set up well in a good system they can sound startlingly good.

The B&W 802 Diamond can sound excellent - just had the proof a few days ago. Remember that they have a different tweeter crossover than the B&W 800 Diamond - the previously referred graphs of the FR probably do not apply. If you feel happy reading supportive opinions on your speakers do a search in the gearslutz forum. www.gearslutz.com;)

BTW, the B&W802 Diamond / DartZeel combination with Transparent Opus MM2 speaker and IC cables was tried. It exceeded our expectations - and the owner budget!
 

Sencha

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2013
110
13
323
U.K.
Microstrip, thanks for the heads up. Had a look at the gearslutz forum but couldn't find the 802 thread so hey-ho. I don't have any great cabling for my system at the moment but even without Transparent Opus MM2 my system sounds pretty stunning so I'm in no great hurry to change my cable loom. I have tried a couple of cables but nothing worthwhile compared to the Mogami I currently use. The Transparent would be wonderful I'm sure but at the moment my budget probably doesn't reach half of that. Ho-hum. If you know where the 802 thread on the GS's forum maybe you can post another link. Cheers.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing