802 Diamond Deficencies?

NC Lee

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Oct 23, 2014
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I am considering the 802 Diamonds. The series appears to have little following on this board, and other boards seem to have love/hate constituencies. I understand they do not measure flat (but don't know the sonic implications).
What are the knocks against the speaker that I should weigh in my decision? Thanks.
 
Last edited:

docvale

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Mar 21, 2011
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the 802D are some of the most popular highend speakers in Italy. As a matter of facts, that's the speaker I know better, having listened to them in their several iterations at my reference showroom, at trade shows and at a friend's house.

They can be super-engaging or disappointing, and that is basically just dependent on the power amp you are going to use. They are slow and disappointing with tubed gear (I listened to them with ARC and Convergent) or with McIntosh, while they can sound awesome with high current and powerful solid state amps. Best match ever? Two Audio Analogue Class A amps in bridged mode!
They also did great with the Norwegian Electrocompaniet gear and with Classe'. With Jeff Rowland, which shares the same importer in Italy, they also do fine: anyway, I'm just referring to the class-D design from Rowland, which is not my favorite (anyway, that's performing better than with tubed gear).

If well driven, the 802D represent a phenomenal bang for the buck.
 

KeithR

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Some people don't like Kevlar midranges and I'd say the amp requirement is much higher than on regular speakers (more expensive watts required)

B&Ws were always bright to me, but the latest iterations aren't so in my limited experience.

Speakers are personal, so go audition a bunch before you buy.
 

microstrip

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Remember that the 802D sound quite different from the 802 Diamond. The Diamond are the current model and to my knowledge need powerful amplifiers.

Due to their "head" shape of the separate midrange and tweeter units they have a characteristic uneven lateral response, very much criticized by the Harman people in their writings.
 

amirm

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Due to their "head" shape of the separate midrange and tweeter units they have a characteristic uneven lateral response, very much criticized by the Harman people in their writings.
I will add that it is not just in writings :). I sat through a double blind test of the 802 against the JBL at half the price. Didn't know any of this until the test was over. I voted it second best behind the JBL. So based on the technical point micro is quoting above and actual unbiased listening test, I say there are better choices out there.

The B&W is the most popular high-end speaker so yes, it is surprising that we don't have more participation from members who own them.
 

Ronm1

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Feb 21, 2011
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The B&W is the most popular high-end speaker so yes, it is surprising that we don't have more participation from members who own them.
IMHO it is quite simple. The pre D are ear bleeders. Detailed for short term listening but easily on the etchiness, fatiguing side long term. Most here tend to lean towards listening to music, I suspect for long stretches. On the avg it's been my experience the two don't mix well. Certainly not with me, that's for sure.
As I mentioned in another thread, an audio bud has five pre D. He spends most of his time taming the high end.
 

RBFC

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I had the 802Ds, not the newer Diamonds, so my comments may not apply. I felt the earlier 802Ds lacked bass extension and, quite interestingly, top-end extension as well. I moved (in a deal too good to pass up) to the 801Ds and both issues were resolved. My measurements of the 801Ds in my room using the Dirac software confirmed good bass extension and acceptable treble too. My overall impression was that the 802Ds were inadequate without a subwoofer. I lust after several obviously better speakers for upgrade, but this will have to wait a few more years.

Lee
 

microstrip

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I will add that it is not just in writings :). I sat through a double blind test of the 802 against the JBL at half the price. Didn't know any of this until the test was over. I voted it second best behind the JBL. So based on the technical point micro is quoting above and actual unbiased listening test, I say there are better choices out there.

The B&W is the most popular high-end speaker so yes, it is surprising that we don't have more participation from members who own them.

Technical points in high-end must be taken with a lot of care. I have not owned the 802 Diamond, but two 801 versions and the old 802 series 3. They had similar head geometries, and sounded very good - the 801's needed muscled solid state amplifiers, but the 802 sounded really excellent with an Audio Research D70 II tube amplifier.

In Europe they really represent great value for money, as the imported US speakers are more expensive.

As an apart I must refer two facts :1. that the most impressive stereo reproduction I have ever listened to was the old B&W Nautilus, using four stereo Krell amplifier with a custom Krell active filter. 2. I will not sell my pair of mint B&W Silver Signature SS25 with slate stands. ;)

And yes Amir, the participation of enthusiastic members in WBF is really needed. But those wanting to read about enthusiastic comments should google for Paul Miller, also known for his devotion for the Devialet.
 

NC Lee

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Oct 23, 2014
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I appreciate all of the comments above; they will be helpful to me as I move forward.
 

Shadowfax

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Jul 17, 2014
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I just heard these speakers 2 weeks ago driven by a full blown McIntosh setup with the 600wpc monos and the music just oozed out of the speakers effortlessly.

The same music on an all newer Rotel Separates into the 803 Diamonds struggled to get out of the speaker.

So it will depend on what you drive them with how they will sound to you, but I really enjoyed them.
 

NC Lee

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Oct 23, 2014
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Heard the 802's yesterday in a different shop and they sounded good, but the room was too small. On the way out with 10 minutes left, I heard the Aerial Acoustic 7Ts..... and was startled. They sounded less refined- in a good way; dynamic, energetic, clean, you-are-there life like. I want to want the 802's but I keep getting side tracked.
 

budda

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I have the 801D.They are easy driven by the XA 160,5.
 

Orb

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Technical points in high-end must be taken with a lot of care. I have not owned the 802 Diamond, but two 801 versions and the old 802 series 3. They had similar head geometries, and sounded very good - the 801's needed muscled solid state amplifiers, but the 802 sounded really excellent with an Audio Research D70 II tube amplifier.

In Europe they really represent great value for money, as the imported US speakers are more expensive.

As an apart I must refer two facts :1. that the most impressive stereo reproduction I have ever listened to was the old B&W Nautilus, using four stereo Krell amplifier with a custom Krell active filter. 2. I will not sell my pair of mint B&W Silver Signature SS25 with slate stands. ;)

And yes Amir, the participation of enthusiastic members in WBF is really needed. But those wanting to read about enthusiastic comments should google for Paul Miller, also known for his devotion for the Devialet.

And Paul Miller likes the B&W 802d speaker, which he owns and uses with the Devialet.
I knew one person here in UK who had the Nautilus, insane amount of mono amps along a wall that was further compounded by using 802d for surround (when used).

BTW, I thought the "head"/sphere type design was meant to be ideal shape?
Although I can appreciate it has challenges (see Cabasse).

Cheers
Orb
 

bonzo75

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I didn't like the 802 Diamonds on their own but teamed up with subs and a good room corrector like Dirac they are superb. I also heard them in a 13.4 Datasat RS20i Dirac Auro 3d system which remains the best system I have heard for Orchestral, and was also the best rounded system I have heard. Play anything from rock to classical, music to movies, it did brilliantly. In a 7m * 3m room
 

edorr

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I didn't like the 802 Diamonds on their own but teamed up with subs and a good room corrector like Dirac they are superb. I also heard them in a 13.4 Datasat RS20i Dirac Auro 3d system which remains the best system I have heard for Orchestral, and was also the best rounded system I have heard. Play anything from rock to classical, music to movies, it did brilliantly. In a 7m * 3m room

How do you fit 13 floorstanders and 4 subs in a 7 x 3m (= 22 x 10 feet) room?
 

bonzo75

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How do you fit 13 floorstanders and 4 subs in a 7 x 3m (= 22 x 10 feet) room?

Lol no, only the front two were the 802 Diamonds. He had 4 Seaton Subs. The rest were mounted on the wall and the ceiling, but were all B&Ws
 

edorr

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Lol no, only the front two were the 802 Diamonds. He had 4 Seaton Subs. The rest were mounted on the wall and the ceiling, but were all B&Ws

That makes more sense now. My room is about the same size. I am using in wall B&W Signature 8NT for surrounds. Great speaker.
 

bonzo75

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I think you might know djnickuk from the AVSforum, it was his system
 

DonH50

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I have heard the 802 Diamond, 803 Diamond, and 804 Diamond fairly recently (within a couple of years, but before the last major tweak -- and price increase). They've almost always had the imaging "problem" but IME room treatment helps. Does not completely solve it, but they still sound awfully good to me. I always liked them reasonably close in a big room, not quite near-field but perhaps 8' - 12' (~3 m - 4 m) away. At that time the 804 sounded like it was almost a different line, nowhere near as good as the 803 or 802. A very brief listen of the latest 804 Diamond seemed to show the gap had closed.

B&W figured prominently in a lot of the testing I helped with back in the 80's. I was debating between 801's and Magnepan when I got my then and current Maggies. At that time I did some testing with my own amps that included a Phase Linear 700, Audio Research D79, and modified Hafler DH-220 plus several ARC, Krell, and ML models our store carried or I could borrow. My more recent experience has done nothing to change my opinion that, while the upper end sounds very nice with a tube amp, they need a big SS amp to show their potential. The bass just never sounded right to me with tubes, though I have never heard them with some of the big monster tube amps around now. Most recently I heard them driven by McIntosh, Classe, Rotel, and Emotiva (XPA-1, in a friend's system) amplifiers. I heard both tube and SS McIntosh amps driving the 803's and 802's. I did not care for the tube amp and my friend was able to notice the difference when we switched to SS. We still felt other amps sounded better than the Macs on them but opinions vary. I must note that, while I do not remember the exact models, the Macs were not their big new monoblock monsters but one of their lesser (albeit still very powerful!) stereo SS amps.
 

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