Fremer asks "Is Kyron Audio's Kronos the Best Sounding System You Will Ever Hear?"

bonzo75

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Manis, the info I'm getting re the Orelo Mk2's on the XXHighEnd/Phasure forums look very interesting. Now all I have to do is find a way to hear them. Since Bert's studio is maybe lacking, anywhere you would suggest, either here in the UK or in Europe?
Am I right in thinking the whole system is fully-active, i.e. OB bass drivers and the Orphean horn? Are these amps part of the spkr or in a separate housing? What is the current price of them?
I'm struggling a little to get basic info on these beauties via the XXHighEnd forum.

The model which Peter (Phasure designer, founder of XXhighend) owns is active as well as has jacks to connect external amps - so in future if he wanted to add his own choice of amps he could. That said, the amps which Bert uses are dry clinical basic SS - he is not a valve or SET guy. His own speakers are powered by 30w SS (external, which he himself builds)
 

manisandher

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Manis, the info I'm getting re the Orelo Mk2's on the XXHighEnd/Phasure forums look very interesting. Now all I have to do is find a way to hear them. Since Bert's studio is maybe lacking, anywhere you would suggest, either here in the UK or in Europe?
Am I right in thinking the whole system is fully-active, i.e. OB bass drivers and the Orphean horn? Are these amps part of the spkr or in a separate housing? What is the current price of them?
I'm struggling a little to get basic info on these beauties via the XXHighEnd forum.

The Orelo MkII speakers are fully active, but have the option to be driven by external amps too. The whole package is very neat, with the built-in amps placed inside the speaker's phase plug.

I'm not sure who else in the UK has a pair. Unfortunately I don't entertain home demos (I'm not a dealer and have no commercial affiliation with any manufacturer). Your best bet would be to hop on a plane to NL and take a listen at both Bert's and Peter's places.

Edit: I'm not sure of the exact price, but it's around EUR 24K before VAT.

Mani.
 

manisandher

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That said, the amps which Bert uses are dry clinical basic SS - he is not a valve or SET guy.

I've compared Bert's amps to a whole bunch of others, including SETs, SS single-ended class A, SS push-pull class A, etc, and his amps are anything but dry. They are incredibly clean and detailed though, which I can understand some people mistaking as 'clinical'.

Mani.
 

PeterSt

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The model which Peter (Phasure designer, founder of XXhighend) owns is active as well as has jacks to connect external amps - so in future if he wanted to add his own choice of amps he could.

Hi there Bonzo - Correct.
There's 60W to the woofers in there and 30W each to mid and high. Mid and high can be fed by external amps, separately from the bass section (internal DSP stays active now) or the bass section can be fed externally as well (but now also add DSP for the bass externally).

In the end it is the idea that the whole speaker can be DSP-controlled by means of a "with DAC" integrated means Phasure will provide, so no A/D conversion needs to take place anywhere and all stays in the digital domain (up to D/A of course). XOver filtering can now take place at any sampling frequency (input and output).
I'm saying, because I don't think we touched this subject, which would have been hard anyway at the level we played (LOL).

That said, the amps which Bert uses are dry clinical basic SS - he is not a valve or SET guy. His own speakers are powered by 30w SS (external, which he himself builds)

As a matter of fact Bert sure is a valve guy but let's say that at some stage we convinced ourselves that a low THD+N and straight noise line is more honest to the further development of audio. Add to this that 118dB sensitivity, refusing to use pre-amps, really requires "no noise" or otherwise the noise would blast through the room. Anyway, just a decision at some stage.
Otherwise, the amps Bert uses are 200W, but not important I think.

Regards,
Peter
 

PeterSt

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I'm not sure who else in the UK has a pair. Unfortunately I don't entertain home demos (I'm not a dealer and have no commercial affiliation with any manufacturer). Your best bet would be to hop on a plane to NL and take a listen at both Bert's and Peter's places.

Actually I found this thread because Mani put out a sort of cry for help to me yesterday (and mentioned WBF).
At this moment there's no other Orelo MKII version in the UK, but there is an Orelino which is a smaller version (3x12" instead of 3x 15").
I jumped right in the middle of this thread and anyway I'm quite sure this is not the place to advertise as such, but if someone wants to know more he can contact me (sales phasure com). But if it's all right to ask in here I am fine with that too.
If a anyone wants to audition he is welcome at our place for a day or whatever it takes (personal me designed the electronics part of the speaker and a bit more). But please don't request to play at 110dBSPL all the time because that leaves no room to talk. ;)

Peter
 

bonzo75

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Hi there Bonzo - Correct.
There's 60W to the woofers in there and 30W each to mid and high. Mid and high can be fed by external amps, separately from the bass section (internal DSP stays active now) or the bass section can be fed externally as well (but now also add DSP for the bass externally).

In the end it is the idea that the whole speaker can be DSP-controlled by means of a "with DAC" integrated means Phasure will provide, so no A/D conversion needs to take place anywhere and all stays in the digital domain (up to D/A of course). XOver filtering can now take place at any sampling frequency (input and output).
I'm saying, because I don't think we touched this subject, which would have been hard anyway at the level we played (LOL).



As a matter of fact Bert sure is a valve guy but let's say that at some stage we convinced ourselves that a low THD+N and straight noise line is more honest to the further development of audio. Add to this that 118dB sensitivity, refusing to use pre-amps, really requires "no noise" or otherwise the noise would blast through the room. Anyway, just a decision at some stage.
Otherwise, the amps Bert uses are 200W, but not important I think.

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter good to see you here. Maybe I misunderstood Bert when I asked him why he doesn't use valves.

As for spiritofmusic, whom I was addressing, he runs a mile when anyone starts using SS on any equipment
 

bonzo75

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Actually I found this thread because Mani put out a sort of cry for help to me yesterday (and mentioned WBF).
At this moment there's no other Orelo MKII version in the UK, but there is an Orelino which is a smaller version (3x12" instead of 3x 15").
I jumped right in the middle of this thread and anyway I'm quite sure this is not the place to advertise as such, but if someone wants to know more he can contact me (sales phasure com). But if it's all right to ask in here I am fine with that too.
If a anyone wants to audition he is welcome at our place for a day or whatever it takes (personal me designed the electronics part of the speaker and a bit more). But please don't request to play at 110dBSPL all the time because that leaves no room to talk. ;)

Peter

And a good host too, though I was playing over 85 SPL (at seating position, which is around 6m away)
 

Whatmore

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sbo6

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Here's a crazy notion: How about not passing judgement until you actually hear the setup......
 

mirekti

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Many might not agree, but in my perspective the price is way too much. I haven't had a chance to listen to Kronos, but...

...simple math tells me:

Preamp: no idea, but for the sake of math I'd say $2000

Amp:
Hypex NC400 = $375 x 6 = $2250
DLCP (DPS) = $300
PowerSupply+SoftStart = $500
Case= $1000

Cables: almost any low L is good as you can correct it it in the DSP.

Speakers:
Scanspeak x2= $640
Scanspeak tweeter x4 = $1300
Woofers x4 = $1400
Speaker stand= ??? -> is it more than $2500/pc

So that's $14390, how did they get to $110 000 is out of my imagination.

I might be wrong with certain parts, however, I don't think I am far off of it. Please feel free to comment if I missed anything
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Active...DSP...integrated...Fremer? I feel a disturbance in The Force.

Tim
 

Nyal Mellor

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Many might not agree, but in my perspective the price is way too much. I haven't had a chance to listen to Kronos, but...

...simple math tells me:

Preamp: no idea, but for the sake of math I'd say $2000

Amp:
Hypex NC400 = $375 x 6 = $2250
DLCP (DPS) = $300
PowerSupply+SoftStart = $500
Case= $1000

Cables: almost any low L is good as you can correct it it in the DSP.

Speakers:
Scanspeak x2= $640
Scanspeak tweeter x4 = $1300
Woofers x4 = $1400
Speaker stand= ??? -> is it more than $2500/pc

So that's $14390, how did they get to $110 000 is out of my imagination.

I might be wrong with certain parts, however, I don't think I am far off of it. Please feel free to comment if I missed anything

4-6x over cost is pretty standard markup. They are using DEQX rather than Hypex DSP. And I'd expect their chassis and speaker enclosure cost more than what you mention, plus they need to factor in R&D labor. So I could see how it could end up near that figure. However the market for this kind of speaker is very small, and I am not sure many of the people buying speakers at this level are buying them on the basis of sound quality first, and I do wonder how many they have actually sold.
 

dallasjustice

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Parts don't determine price. The buyer determines the price. Having said that, the kiiaudio speakers should be an interesting comparison with this. I doubt they will sell many Kyron speakers. But I'm glad they have it out there and people are talking about active.
Many might not agree, but in my perspective the price is way too much. I haven't had a chance to listen to Kronos, but...

...simple math tells me:

Preamp: no idea, but for the sake of math I'd say $2000

Amp:
Hypex NC400 = $375 x 6 = $2250
DLCP (DPS) = $300
PowerSupply+SoftStart = $500
Case= $1000

Cables: almost any low L is good as you can correct it it in the DSP.

Speakers:
Scanspeak x2= $640
Scanspeak tweeter x4 = $1300
Woofers x4 = $1400
Speaker stand= ??? -> is it more than $2500/pc

So that's $14390, how did they get to $110 000 is out of my imagination.

I might be wrong with certain parts, however, I don't think I am far off of it. Please feel free to comment if I missed anything
 

Whatmore

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Parts don't determine price. The buyer determines the price. Having said that, the kiiaudio speakers should be an interesting comparison with this. I doubt they will sell many Kyron speakers. But I'm glad they have it out there and people are talking about active.

Agreed..
As an aside,it would be interesting to see a similar parts price breakdown of some better known speakers ...

As a second aside, I've heard the Kyron, it's good, really good
 

treitz3

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mirekti

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As a second aside, I've heard the Kyron, it's good, really good

I belive you. Active speakers with hypex ncore and dsp cannot sound bad. I bet one could take some lousy passive speakers and make them shine without passive xo, shine even more than 10x more expensive passive systems.
 

iansr

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Hmmm, now let me think, which should I choose, this Kyron system or the Linkwitz LX521 system which I can DIY (easily) using the same Ncore modules for about a tenth of the price ? And which is likely to be better designed and therefore better ? Now that's a tough one - not ! Oh, hang on though, the Kyron costs a small fortune so it must be better.
 
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sbo6

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Agreed..
As an aside,it would be interesting to see a similar parts price breakdown of some better known speakers ...

As a second aside, I've heard the Kyron, it's good, really good

With all due respect, you obviously don't understand Marketing and Economics. As I believe others have said the BOM is 1 of many factors that determines price. R&D, Marketing and other expenditures need to be accounted for. Ultimately the buyers and seller determine the final market price. DIY guys commonly leave those variables out..
 

Whatmore

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With all due respect, you obviously don't understand Marketing and Economics. As I believe others have said the BOM is 1 of many factors that determines price. R&D, Marketing and other expenditures need to be accounted for. Ultimately the buyers and seller determine the final market price. DIY guys commonly leave those variables out..

With all due respect sir, you obviously don't understand my point.
I'm wondering why the R&D etc is being dismissed so lightly for these speakers. Why are people focusing on the individual component cost so much more than they do for other speakers?
 

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