Fremer asks "Is Kyron Audio's Kronos the Best Sounding System You Will Ever Hear?"

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

Fine, I wouldn't waste time trying to demo Grimm

asiufy · Feb 25, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Have you heard the Grimms or are you saying based on the spec. I have heard them and not close to an audiophile consideration set. They will give Bang and Olufsen a run for their money. Not impressed by Avantgarde Zero either.

bonzo75,

Have you heard the Avantgarde?

thanks,
alexandre

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

Yes, all the way up to the trios. I liked the trios. I didn't like the duo omega, but would like to hear the duo mezzos. My favorite horn is the Tune audio anima, which The sound of Tao has heard too, and another one made in Berlin which I put up on my horn porn tour thread. I like these two much, much better

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

manisandher said:
Another option:

BD-Design/Phasure Orelo speakers (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=24.0)

- fully active
- open baffle
- 118dB/w@1m coaxial mid/high horn
- 3x 15" (semi horn-loaded) bass drivers per channel
- Hypex DSP
- Fletcher-Munson curves in-built
- less than $30K (the last time I looked)

I own a pair and they are easily the best speakers I've ever heard. Period.

Mani.

Mani, I think you are referring to these. But they are bigger than yours. Have also heard the one at Peter's (Phasure designer) http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...BD-Oris-Horns-Netherlands&highlight=horn+porn

spiritofmusic · Feb 25, 2015

DallasJ, I put your skeptical thoughts re the onboard Deqx to Leon Suter, the designer of the Kronos/Gaia, and he respectfully disagreed w/you, stating the Deqx tech allows:
Frequency and phase correction of spkr output,
High slope linear phase x/over,
Transparent sounding convertor w/well designed filtering,
Digitally controlled ANALOG volume control,
Built-in preamp w/good connectivity, incl USB music interface and mic i/p for room correction.

He said he's always on the lookout for more advanced/suitable tech, but felt it was ok to eschew the more complex dsp available for the most user friendly choice which he feels the Deqx represents. He agreed more advanced units were available, but was bullish this unit was still the best choice.

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

What Kronos is doing can be done with any speakers - components - put a Trinnov in place of the DeqX, Martin Logan CLX, Krell amp, and 2 subs. From what I understand from people who DSP, Trinnov >> DeqX. So someone like Dallas or Marty who are used to DSPing their stuff can mix and match components of their choice.

spiritofmusic · Feb 25, 2015

Ked, as you know I'm a dsp novice, so I really have no opinions one way or the other on Deqx v Trinnov etc. But after listening to the Alpair Open Baffles at Vic's, as you have done too, I'm intrigued by the possibility of that broadly excellent sound maxxed to a much greater level, eliminating some of the shortcomings of the Alpair OB's. This Kronos or Gaia package may represent that step up. Remember this is a fully-active setup, 6 channels of amplification, so it's not really fair to just compare it to a single power amp bundled up w/another spkr/sub. This is a fully-bespoke package w/carefully matched multiple amps/pre/dsp/adc/dac and poss bleeding edge Open Baffle tech, all in a totally streamlined user friendly package w/elimination of multiple cables/pc's etc.
I suspect if the designers really have looked at the market and chosen Deqx as the best for their purposes, this should be taken at face value. And of all the alternative techs to standard box spkrs e.g. stats, planars, horns etc, Open Baffles from my limited experience seems to be the one w/most practical success possible and least artefacts nagging one's subconscious l/t.

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

Yes but at this price I would just buy the datasat system, with the added value it's more re sellable. The only thing that keeps me from buying a fully dsped ready to go system is that I can have fun tweaking 'foo'. If one wanted to take that audiophilia out, I would just get a datasat auro 3d system to focus on the music. If one wanted a 2 ch system, just buy speakers and amps of your choice, and get the Trinnov dealer to come and set it up for you. So you don't have to do anything

spiritofmusic · Feb 25, 2015

Ked, unlike you, resale value is bottom of my list of considerations. This is in effect a path I'm not likely to go down, since I'm really a died-in-the-wool tube guy now, and Ncore Class D amps I just cannot imagine outperforming my Audions or poss Nats in the involvement stakes. Ditto my connection w/the Zu high eff x'overless full range driver presentation. But I do know from recent OB experience that if the Kronos execute this concept superbly, this will be a hell of a speaker. And they are to be commended for the user friendly/max WAF facets of the package.
So yes, one can buy the core components from different companies in the time-honoured audiophile fashion, but there is also a lot to be said for a bespoke all-in-one package.

Whatmore · Feb 25, 2015

It's interesting to observe the comments regarding the use of DEQX.
Contrast with the comments (or lack of) about the crossovers and other components that say, Wilson uses

spiritofmusic · Feb 25, 2015

Whatmore, in my recent communication w. Leon, he is ADAMANT they made the right choice w/Deqx. He fully admits there are other dsp techs w.greater sophistication/headroom, but for a user-friendly interface, this unit remains their first choice. And they have, and continue to, look at other dsp units.
I'm minded to accept his conclusion, I mean he IS the designer after all. And I suspect the spkr bespoke package means that interesting choices will have been blended to create a whole greater than the sum of it's parts. Why can't Deqx be best suited to this spkr.
I find it a little sad that people are picking apart a product that is bringing a fresh concept to the marketplace, at a price level that is hefty, but at the lower end of the range you'd expect in the high end when all the constituents are considered.
The top of the range Linn Akubarik in effect sells for the same price as the Kronos if you exclude import taxes, and similarly offers an all-in-one spkr/dsp/amp/pre/adc/dac package. My hunch is that the Kronos will outpace the Linn because of it's OB design fully tuned by the tailored electronics package.

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

The resellability is an added benefit. In addition to better Sonics. And Sonics will be better because they will be the buyer's choice, rather than the designer's. why would I pay for a component that is rigid, not available in the used market, can't be resold easily, and sounds less good (based on theory) than the alternative, which is as simple.

Btw I don't know where you got the ncore vs audions from. I was saying you can pick and choose your components with the trinnov, which can be ncore, krell, or audions

spiritofmusic · Feb 25, 2015

Ked, you may be right and the company will fail to sell many packages due to the take-it-or-leave-it/all-in-one solution offered, lack of future flexibility and dire sell-on residual. From what I can gather, OB spkrs need a lot right to get them to sound good, and I suspect an all-in bespoke solution maxxing compatibility btwn active amps/pre/adc/dac/dsp and the OBs may be best w/this choice of spkr tech. I guess if you really like what you hear, and it outperforms alternatives, and you're not desperate to continually upgrade, they may be an excellent stepping off point. I wonder how Linn are getting on w/their Akubarik all-in-one solutions, and whether potential customers are put off by the lack of future flexibility? There must be a market for audiophiles who seek excellent SQ and desire the WAF of a single box of electronics, limited set of cables, and two spkrs.
As I said, what you get for your final bill is pretty impressive. The market for this option has always existed, w/Meridian fully active spkrs/dacs married to transports from the 80's to present day, B&O in the 90's to now Linn w/the Akubarik , and now Kyron.
I have to say, if I was looking for a discrete system w/the bare minimum of boxes, spkrs of reasonable size, the ability to tailor the sound to my room, keep the mess of cables to almost nothing, impose on the room hardly at all, keep those around me happy, and still have class leading audiophile SQ w/OB sound maybe outperforming a lot of systems on the market at twice the price, I would be stupid to look past this all-in-one solution. Maybe it would cure me of the need to keep looking for the next best thing.
I do feel companies like Kyron need to be supported, rather than always going w/the tired predictable choices of Wilson, Magico etc
And the system would only need ONE Entreq ground box and ONE Entreq ground cable and ONE set of Shun Mooks!!! Look at all the money one would save. This system is looking more and more cost effective

!

bonzo75 · Feb 26, 2015

I.still don't think you get it. Linn is relatively much cheaper and disposable, and the trinnov plus amp plus two speakers is as minimal in terms of boxes. So we are are not debating those characteristics at all. There are other active speakers like Adam, and you can use OB or box speakers or horns. So you.lose none of the advantages offered by the Kyron, just gain a few more

Whatmore · Feb 26, 2015

bonzo75 said:
I.still don't think you get it. Linn is relatively much cheaper and disposable, and the trinnov plus amp plus two speakers is as minimal in terms of boxes. So we are are not debating those characteristics at all. There are other active speakers like Adam, and you can use OB or box speakers or horns. So you.lose none of the advantages offered by the Kyron, just gain a few more

how does it sound?
how does it sound compared to systems costing the same?
Does anything else matter

bonzo75 · Feb 26, 2015

Whatmore said:
how does it sound?
how does it sound compared to systems costing the same?
Does anything else matter

Spirited Marc does not only want to compare the sound, but thinks a minimal box DSP system has advantages. So I am just providing one-two box DSP alternatives at a lower cost, which should sound better (in theory, as I noted before) because the speakers/amps are tailored to the buyer's choice rather than the designer's, not to mention they are also changeable and resellable

Moreover, given how much Spirit values service, the Trinnov speaker system will have local service

Whatmore · Feb 26, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Spirited Marc does not only want to compare the sound, but thinks a minimal box DSP system has advantages. So I am just providing one-two box DSP alternatives at a lower cost, which should sound better (in theory, as I noted before) because the speakers/amps are tailored to the buyer's choice rather than the designer's, not to mention they are also changeable and resellable

Moreover, given how much Spirit values service, the Trinnov speaker system will have local service

I wasn't really asking your opinion of what spiritofmusic does or does not want to do.
I was asking how the speaker sounds compared to other systems costing the same and whether there should be any other criteria used to judge it

spiritofmusic · Feb 26, 2015

Ked, none of your answers has a system w/6 channels of amps in a fully-active configuration. The Linn Akubarik does, but it's not OB. Apples and oranges to compare to a pair of spkrs/single amp/Trinnov/sub. By your own admission you loved what the Linn all-in-one did so much you preferred the cheaper option. Maybe the synergy the Linn achieved could not easily be found mixing and matching.

manisandher · Feb 26, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Mani, I think you are referring to these. But they are bigger than yours. Have also heard the one at Peter's (Phasure designer) http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...BD-Oris-Horns-Netherlands&highlight=horn+porn

I'm not sure if Bert has installed the MkII mods in his original Orelo speakers. These mods add the Hypex DSP (and the F-M curves), which take the low end of the speakers to a totally different level. To get an idea of how, look here: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2999.75 (scroll down to the middle of the page). I'm now getting a low end that is better than any I've heard anywhere (private setups, Munich High End, etc), and certainly a LOT better than Bert is achieving in his room. And in any case, I think Bert's room isn't very good acoustically - the two times I've been there I've felt the bass to be lacking real low end weight.

I haven't been to Peter's place for a while now so can't comment.

Mani.

spiritofmusic · Feb 26, 2015

Manis, the info I'm getting re the Orelo Mk2's on the XXHighEnd/Phasure forums look very interesting. Now all I have to do is find a way to hear them. Since Bert's studio is maybe lacking, anywhere you would suggest, either here in the UK or in Europe?
Am I right in thinking the whole system is fully-active, i.e. OB bass drivers and the Orphean horn? Are these amps part of the spkr or in a separate housing? What is the current price of them?
I'm struggling a little to get basic info on these beauties via the XXHighEnd forum.

Fremer asks "Is Kyron Audio's Kronos the Best Sounding System You Will Ever Hear?"

Member Sponsor

Industry Expert/VIP Donor

Member Sponsor

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads