Fremer asks "Is Kyron Audio's Kronos the Best Sounding System You Will Ever Hear?"

Whatmore · Oct 18, 2014

We folk "down under" don't get the same audio shows that you guys do.
There's one on in Melbourne this weekend which you probably don't know about. You probably don't know much about our local speaker manufacturers either but we've been fortunate enough to have Michael Fremer visiting.

It seems he likes what he hears

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/kyron-audios-kronos-best-sounding-system-you-will-ever-hear

Jazzhead · Oct 18, 2014

Them's pretty strong words, expect a price increase !

dallasjustice · Oct 18, 2014

I am not surprised. Just think how much better with more sophisticated DSP software/hardware.

dallasjustice · Oct 18, 2014

If Fremer falls in love with this system:

cables and turntables

spiritofmusic · Feb 23, 2015

DallasJ, what is the issue w/the dsp/amps they are using? It's pretty much a one-stop bespoke all-in-one purchase, so I guess you either love the whole kaboodle. Or you don't.
Current price c.AU$95k/US$75k/UK£50k = US$100k/UK£75k after carriage/taxes. Only available factory-direct at present.
Fremer looks genuinely enthralled by the Kronos going by his smiles in the brief videos. And the Continuum tt designer Mark Doehmann, who must by definition be a difficult analog guy to please putting a phono signal in the digital domain, is bowled over by them.
They're just a little out of my price range, but I have to say if I was looking for (near) SOTA at a competitive price for a whole lot of gear (spkrs/amps/dsp/adc/dac/cables), I would favour these more than e.g. the Cessaro Liszts that would cost me the same.

dallasjustice · Feb 23, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
DallasJ, what is the issue w/the dsp/amps they are using? It's pretty much a one-stop bespoke all-in-one purchase, so I guess you either love the whole kaboodle. Or you don't.
Current price c.AU$95k/US$75k/UK£50k = US$100k/UK£75k after carriage/taxes. Only available factory-direct at present.
Fremer looks genuinely enthralled by the Kronos going by his smiles in the brief videos. And the Continuum tt designer Mark Doehmann, who must by definition be a difficult analog guy to please putting a phono signal in the digital domain, is bowled over by them.
They're just a little out of my price range, but I have to say if I was looking for (near) SOTA at a competitive price for a whole lot of gear (spkrs/amps/dsp/adc/dac/cables), I would favour these more than e.g. the Cessaro Liszts that would cost me the same.

I used to own a DEQX HDP-4. It is not bespoke. Anyone can buy a DEQX for around $6,500. I am very familiar with what a DEQX can do and and what it can't do. It's a great unit but it lacks much more advanced DSP functionality found elsewhere. I understand that Kyron wants to have a simple system to setup, but I doubt the DEQX is the best option for DSP.

Btw, I love the speaker design and the idea of an active system has always intrigued me. I think it comes down to how a company will sell the gear. I consider myself a DSP enthusiast so I am not the target customer.

spiritofmusic · Feb 23, 2015

DallasJ, I bow to your greater knowledge. I'm v.much a dsp ingenue. What I find fascinating is that serious analog heads like Fremer and Doehmann love their lp's played thru the Kronos in the digital domain. Maybe it's time for me to consider this step too. Other a-d/d-a designs like the Wadax Pre 2 are making big waves amongst record lovers that previously would have considered it heresy digitising analog signals. Despite the Kronos being too exalted a price for me to consider just yet, and I still love my Zu Audio Definitions 4's, they still look like a lot of gear for the entry ticket - this DEQX dsp, a-d/d-a, 6 channels/1.5kW of Bruno Putzey/Mola Mola-derived amps, and a no-holds barred attempt at the bleeding edge of OB design. 32Hz-40kHz, but this spec doesn't convey the power of the bass presentation apparently, which is much more spectacular due to the lack of box colouration.
Interestingly, the nearest package to it is the Linn Akubarik top of the range, which has in-built amps/dac/a-d/d-a electronics, for c.£50k compared to the £75k the Kronos will sell for. But the Linn of course is a traditional box spkr w/all the electronics housed in the spkr cabinets, whereas the Kronos is just drivers/framework, the gubbins in a separate dedicated box.

Nyal Mellor · Feb 23, 2015

dallasjustice said:
I used to own a DEQX HDP-4. It is not bespoke. Anyone can buy a DEQX for around $6,500. I am very familiar with what a DEQX can do and and what it can't do. It's a great unit but it lacks much more advanced DSP functionality found elsewhere. I understand that Kyron wants to have a simple system to setup, but I doubt the DEQX is the best option for DSP.

Btw, I love the speaker design and the idea of an active system has always intrigued me. I think it comes down to how a company will sell the gear. I consider myself a DSP enthusiast so I am not the target customer.

On the subject of speaker correction and crossovers DEQX is still offering things no one else is, namely linear phase crossovers with steep slopes and linear phase driver correction. What other solutions that don't run on a computer (with all the issues that it brings) are there?

I agree that their room correction (digital parametric EQ) is behind state of the art offerings from Dirac or Trinnov. But I know that they are working on that

spiritofmusic · Feb 23, 2015

So Nyal, at a cost of close on US$100k all told, is it an issue re the Deqx being not up to snuff for this price tag, or is DallasJ being overly critical? If there is an update to the dsp tech used, should one hold off buying now? And will a step up on Deqx HDP-4 necc mean a price increase do you think? I'm not a dsp nut at all, maybe this is still the best tech for a fledgling like myself.

dallasjustice · Feb 23, 2015

other options:
grimm Ls-1 and Avantgarde zero.

dallasjustice · Feb 23, 2015

No question DEQX is a nice unit. But we ARE talking about 6 figure speakers here. There's no reason the manufacturer can't come up with a more advanced system. No question windows and jriver can be challenging to some folks. But, the DEQX had its fair share of problems as well:
1. ASRC everything to 96khz for DSP.
2. Old school PEQ.
3. Goofy USB connection which doesn't work consistently.
4. 32 bit volume control.

It wouldn't be that difficult for the manufacturer to linearize and time align the drivers with 64 bit filters and help the customer get Jriver going. These speakers will leave the factory only once. Presumably, the factory will be the last chance the speaker could be accurately measured and corrected down to very low frequencies. After that, we know DSP WILL continue to get more powerful. Software can be easily updated and upgraded as microprocessors get more powerful.

Nyal Mellor said:
On the subject of speaker correction and crossovers DEQX is still offering things no one else is, namely linear phase crossovers with steep slopes and linear phase driver correction. What other solutions that don't run on a computer (with all the issues that it brings) are there?

I agree that their room correction (digital parametric EQ) is behind state of the art offerings from Dirac or Trinnov. But I know that they are working on that

manisandher · Feb 24, 2015

Another option:

BD-Design/Phasure Orelo speakers (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=24.0)

- fully active
- open baffle
- 118dB/w@1m coaxial mid/high horn
- 3x 15" (semi horn-loaded) bass drivers per channel
- Hypex DSP
- Fletcher-Munson curves in-built
- less than $30K (the last time I looked)

I own a pair and they are easily the best speakers I've ever heard. Period.

Mani.

Whatmore · Feb 24, 2015

It's not often that we folks 'down under' get to hear something before the rest of the world.
I've heard these, they are seriously good. They left some other far more expensive systems I heard for dead

spiritofmusic · Feb 24, 2015

Whatmore, how do the Kronos compare to the Gaia? I gather the latter is c.2.5x the price, but the Kronos is such a successful result of trickle down tech that it is not embarrassed in any way, maybe only outright bass performance/ability to play in ginormous rooms being the only technical reasons to go for the costlier Gaia.
I have to say more and more the price of the Kronos, although not cheap in any way, is within reasonable bounds for the package offered i.e. bleeding edge OB tech/materials, 6 channels active amps, a-d/d-a, pre/dsp (even if not the v. best), cabling.
The Linn Akubarik is £50k+ for a similar all-in package, and this would be the system/price point I guess to compare the Kronos to in terms of package offered.
Somehow I strongly suspect the OB nature of the Kronos would trump the Linn. I have heard a spectacular-for-the-price OB spkr recently, and in so many ways it pressed my buttons, I don't dare to consider what a SOTA offering would provide.

Whatmore · Feb 24, 2015

I've heard both the Gaia and the Kronos and to be honest I thought the Kronos was better. That may have to do with the fact that they were in rooms at a hifi show and the Gaia just seemd a bit imposing. It may well be better in a larger room.
There was a full Linn setup at the same show at which I heard the Kronos and to be honest, I didn't like it. Or to be fairer, I didn't like it for the price. To be even fairer though I am a big fan of "non-box" speakers (I own Sanders Electrostats) so that is my own bias.

I've heard a few Linn systems from entry level to full blown fully active (both at hifi shows which are not ideal and also in their dedicated showroom in Melbourne which I would hope is ideal) and they just don't really float my boat.

murrayp · Feb 25, 2015

I also heard the Kronos at the Melbourne show last year - I thought they were really stunning - well above anything else at the show. They were hugely revealing yet preserved the character of the sound - I find often revealing systems lose track of tonal accuracy and naturalness. Kyron are using top end speaker components, now driven by ncore amplifiers and I couldn't fault the sound. In my search, I've made effort to carefully listen to both the speakers referred to above by DallasJ and in my view neither of these are even close to the league of the Kyrons - of course they are not in the same price range either. Having said all this the laws of physics don't go away and there's limits to how low an OB system can go - you'd need a sub for the lowest octave - the low synth used in Lorde/Royals was poorly served - again though, few systems even know it exists.

Like all stereo though, the sound has a flavour - revealing and clear - some will like it, others may prefer something more warm and cuddly.
Given the $$ you'd need to spend to get a similar sound with discrete components, the price is probably not unreasonable. The real issue I'm afraid (for any start up) is the question of resale value. I don't know how a young company can get over this hurdle.

spiritofmusic · Feb 25, 2015

Murrayp, the real issue is getting them past the GF, or more likely, getting the invoice past her

!
Seriously, when you add up what you get i.e. sota OB spkrs, 6 channels (3 stereo amps) actively amped, dsp, a-d/d-a, digital pre w/analog volume, all cables and power cords, and a total system synergy as part of the package, it actually starts to approach audiophile vfm. The Uk price of £75k would break down as, let's say, £5k on dsp, £5k on a-d/d-a, £10k on pre, £10k on stereo amp x3, £3k on cables, £25k on the OBs - the maths is not so astronomic in vfm/package terms.

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

dallasjustice said:
other options:
grimm Ls-1 and Avantgarde zero.

Have you heard the Grimms or are you saying based on the spec. I have heard them and not close to an audiophile consideration set. They will give Bang and Olufsen a run for their money. Not impressed by Avantgarde Zero either.

The new Linn Akubarik Exakt is way superior to both of them, and at 25k retail GBP also beats Linn's own 50k GBP system

bonzo75 · Feb 25, 2015

Whatmore said:
I've heard both the Gaia and the Kronos and to be honest I thought the Kronos was better. That may have to do with the fact that they were in rooms at a hifi show and the Gaia just seemd a bit imposing. It may well be better in a larger room.
There was a full Linn setup at the same show at which I heard the Kronos and to be honest, I didn't like it. Or to be fairer, I didn't like it for the price. To be even fairer though I am a big fan of "non-box" speakers (I own Sanders Electrostats) so that is my own bias.

I've heard a few Linn systems from entry level to full blown fully active (both at hifi shows which are not ideal and also in their dedicated showroom in Melbourne which I would hope is ideal) and they just don't really float my boat.

Have you heard the new Linn Akubarik Exakt?

dallasjustice · Feb 25, 2015

I haven't heard any of these speakers. My comments are based on my experience with DSP. The Kyron gear looks like a better design than any other active I've seen. But that doesn't mean it's a great value or couldn't be much better. I don't put any stock into what Fremer says. I doubt he would know what a good system sounds like.

bonzo75 said:
Have you heard the Grimms or are you saying based on the spec. I have heard them and not close to an audiophile consideration set. They will give Bang and Olufsen a run for their money. Not impressed by Avantgarde Zero either.

The new Linn Akubarik Exakt is way superior to both of them, and at 25k retail GBP also beats Linn's own 50k GBP system

Fremer asks "Is Kyron Audio's Kronos the Best Sounding System You Will Ever Hear?"

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