What's with all the "bogus" hi-res downloads??

rbbert

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For a while it seemed that there was a fuss about upsampled 16/44.1 files sold as "hi-res", either in SACD's or 24/96 PCM (or even 24/192) and HDTracks responded by more carefully vetting the albums they sold. Now more recently the trend has reversed and there are a lot of "new" titles coming out. Acoustic Sounds has Stevie Wonder "Hotter Than July" and "In Square Circle", both known to be (and obviously) from 16/44.1 masters, MFSL has SACD's of Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" and Los Lobos "Kiko" (likewise), HDTracks is selling The Allman Brothers "Complete Fillmore East Concerts" as a 24/192 download even though it was a 24/96 transfer from the analog masters (identified as such at prostudiomasters.com even though they also sell a 24/192 version, and there is even a low-pass filter used at about 29 kHz), the Jerry Garcia store sells a 24/176.4 album made from a 16/48 DAT master, and the list goes on.
 

Joe Whip

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This is a real problem which is why I try to do as much investigation as is possible about the provenance of the downloads before I purchase them. That is often hard to do. If the site says nothing, I just assume they are CD resolution and don't buy them. We need some strict guidelines and disclosure of this kind of thing otherwise it will kill off high res quickly. After all, it is much cheaper to buy used CDs and rip them to your hard drive and they can sound excellent. Most of the music I have on my server are rips of CDs . I did one test with a download of a track of one of the downloads and couldn't tell a difference from the CD I had ripped to the SSD. I am really selective in what 24/96 or 24/192 downloads. I must be damn sure they are made directly from the master tape before I buy them.
 

audioarcher

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May 6, 2012
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I actually have some so called hi-res files that sound worse than my CD sourced files of the same title. There is a lot of junk out there.
 

rbbert

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"From the master" doesn't mean hi-res if the master is 16/44.1 or 16/48...
 

Joe Whip

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Correct but what I would like is the best transfer of the master that is possible. From my listening experience, that is 24/192 for an analog tape. If it is recorded 24/96, that is what I would want to. What I don't want are 24/96 recordings that are mastered for CD and then that CD master is used for the "high res" edition. I don't want 16/44.1 put in a 24/96 or 24/192 bucket. If the original recording was done at 16/44.1 or 16/48 then fine. Give me that. But if it is analog tape, I want 24/192 (I guess 24/96 will do too). I think you get my point.
 

rbbert

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True, but it's not my point, which is that material originally recorded at 16/44.1 or 16/48 is remastered at 24/96 at then sold that way, or analog tape is transferred at 24/96 and then mastered and sold at 24/192.
 

Joe Whip

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I agree. Material recorded at 16/44.1 or 16/48 should NOT be sold in a 24/96/192 bucket but should be sold as what it really is. Sticking 16/44/1 stuff into a 24/96/192 bucket does not imprive the sound. Downloads should be labeled properly and there should be standards on this. My rule is simple. Unless the provenance is specially stated, I assume that it is no better than 16/44.1 and don't buy. I think we are in complete agreement.
 

Orb

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True, but it's not my point, which is that material originally recorded at 16/44.1 or 16/48 is remastered at 24/96 at then sold that way, or analog tape is transferred at 24/96 and then mastered and sold at 24/192.

In HifiNews this month only one out of five hirez album reviewed when analysed-measured was deemed to be worthy of actually being hirez (caveat here being not all are from one label-studio).
Cheers
Orb
 

elescher

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I download most of my music files from eClassical. They have excellent prices, great selection and the majority of their titles indicate the original recordings resolution.
 

rbbert

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I'm wondering why the nascent policy of more honesty in "hi-res" albums' provenance, which seemed so promising 2-3 years ago, has been so soundly reversed.
 

Alrainbow

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Dec 11, 2013
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I really liked acoustic sounds , it's one I trusted . It's to a point that I will invest in the software and analyze myself and post results on few forums . Something should be done for sure. But pay by advertisement sites will ban if need be. This is the equivent of watered down booze .
Al
 

astrotoy

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May 24, 2010
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I really liked acoustic sounds , it's one I trusted . It's to a point that I will invest in the software and analyze myself and post results on few forums . Something should be done for sure. But pay by advertisement sites will ban if need be. This is the equivent of watered down booze .
Al

Al, could you explain your fourth sentence - "But pay by advertisement..." I'm afraid I don't understand what it means. Thanks, Larry
 

Alrainbow

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Sorry for the poor grammer. I meant sites the have advertisements. Some forums I attend have paid advertisement as such if the one of the advertirsers were let's say hd tracks. They would never allow such postings.
Al
 

Kefas

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May 21, 2014
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Good true Hi-Res download labels.

I really liked acoustic sounds , it's one I trusted . It's to a point that I will invest in the software and analyze myself and post results on few forums . Something should be done for sure. But pay by advertisement sites will ban if need be. This is the equivent of watered down booze .
Al

I do not know if you can access these European labels,
but Naim (http://www.naimlabel.com/)

Linn , (http://www.linn.co.uk/music)

and my personal favorite Sound Liaison, http://www.soundliaison.com/

who only sell one to one copy's of the master file and are completely transparent in giving info on how the recording was made.

Those 3 labels are in my opinion trustworthy.

And I know for a fact that the great Doug Macleod download on HDtracks ''There is a Time'' was recorded in 176/24 so that one is OK.


Andre.jpg

1000.jpg
 
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Soundproof

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Jan 13, 2012
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Buyer beware, I guess.

Not so hard to figure out, though. The microphone(s) represents the bottleneck to look out for. Their frequency range decided how much information was captured, as (of course) did the recording medium.
Few microphones captured much above 16kHz in the golden age of stereo, so there's your reference. Any source material purporting to be high-res, recorded with such microphones, is not high-res.

Consider, if you will, an audiophile war-horse such as the Neumann U47: http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Neumann/U-47
 

Bruce B

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Alrainbow

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Bruce I have a lot of respect for you. And I know you love your DSD. So how do old 50 and 60 recordings remastered to DSD appeal to you ?
Al
 

Bruce B

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Bruce I have a lot of respect for you. And I know you love your DSD. So how do old 50 and 60 recordings remastered to DSD appeal to you ?
Al

I am format agnostic as long as care has been taken in the transfer/remastering process of any album. Seems that as far as DSD is concerned, more often than not, more care is taken during the transfer/remastering for some reason or another. Maybe it's because the studios had to spend more money in their DSD rigs. I don't know.

For me, If I had to choose, DSD would be my preference and here's why I would choose DSD128fs. This seems to be the closest thing I've heard to the source on everything I've recorded. I haven't used every A/D out there, but I've sure tried and am sure open to any suggestions. The best PCM A/D converter I've used is the MSB Platinum, but it still didn't move me. It felt too mechanical, analytical and structured. There are some DSD converters out there that are not very good, but when it is good, it's great! Older 50's and 60's recordings have a lot of soul and passion and I feel DSD can bring that out better. You can take it away too easily with PCM and the "tools" of the trade.
 
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Alrainbow

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Excellent reply and something I can most definatly agree with.
I own a few good dacs and the msb plat plus. As it is very musically accurate my B7 seems to be more musical. Even if a small amount of detail is sacrificed. And DSD is a funny thing it's right or it's not DSD
Most do not get this. And you comments say it very well.
Thanks for your reply.
Al
 

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